Comments Thread For: The Top 25 Heavyweights of All-Time – 11 to 25

[IMDAZED]

List looks good so far. Hopefully a Klitschko won't be snuck in there but I'm thinking like the Black Eyed Peas right now...

[crold1]

List looks good so far. Hopefully a Klitschko won't be snuck in there but I'm thinking like the Black Eyed Peas right now...

They're not on the list anywhere. Maybe some day. Not yet. I'm going to have to go back and do the Jr. Division lists again with the standards used for the eight lists before I get into some other lists.

[IMDAZED]

They're not on the list anywhere. Maybe some day. Not yet.

Nice, C. Should be interesting.

[cool-jupiter]

Rocky Marciano atop the heavyweight hill, though I've never seen him real time.

[TheGreatA]

As noted bro, I had Tunney 4 all time at Light Heavyweight. That's where most of the Greb fights belong and even the last, and Gibbons, were only a handful of pounds over. It was a coin flip between Tunney and Fitz for this list in about the same spot. They were great fighters and had great accomplishments at Heavyweight, but Tunney literally had a handful of fights there. I can't weigh that too heavy against guys with substantive Heavy careers.

Greb and Gibbons were light heavyweights but they held wins over most of the top heavyweights at the time and were considered the best challengers for Jack Dempsey.

For example Greb beat most of Dempsey's opponents (Brennan, Miske, Gibbons, Gunboat Smith, Levinsky, Meehan) and often in as impressive fashion and sometimes more impressively. Gibbons was considered a top 3 contender only behind Wills and Tunney and had gone the distance with the champ. I think they should be taken into account even though they weren't heavyweights in size.

[crold1]

Greb and Gibbons were light heavyweights but they held wins over most of the top heavyweights at the time and were considered the best challengers for Jack Dempsey.

For example Greb beat most of Dempsey's opponents and often in as impressive fashion. Gibbons was considered a top 3 contender only behind Wills and Tunney and had gone the distance with the champ. I think they should be taken into account even though they weren't heavyweights in size.

I agree and did...it's why Tunney made it at all. It still doesn't outweigh, to me, fighters with significant longevity at Heavyweight and, IMO, would borrow too much from the resumes of others outside their fights with Tunney to make Tunney's case for a higher slot.

[TheGreatA]

I agree and did...it's why Tunney made it at all. It still doesn't outweigh, to me, fighters with significant longevity at Heavyweight and, IMO, would borrow too much from the resumes of others outside their fights with Tunney to make Tunney's case for a higher slot.

But Tunney had wins over the top heavyweights of his time Dempsey, Gibbons, Greb and the only other top heavyweight at the time Harry Wills didn't want to face him. He established himself as the best heavyweight of the late 1920's. He was also dominant and left no questions about his wins. Dempsey clearly beaten twice, Gibbons stopped, got the better of Greb in 5 fights, was the first to stop Heeney, won clearly over Risko, KO'd Madden who had lasted 15 against Wills.

Some heavyweights who are rated over him were arguably not even top 3 in their own time. I think there's a good case to rate him in the top 20.

[crold1]

But Tunney had wins over the top heavyweights of his time Dempsey, Gibbons, Greb and the only other top heavyweight at the time Harry Wills didn't want to face him. He established himself as the best heavyweight of the late 1920's. He was also dominant and left no questions about his wins. Dempsey clearly beaten twice, Gibbons stopped, got the better of Greb in 5 fights, was the first to stop Heeney, won clearly over Risko, KO'd Madden who had lasted 15 against Wills.

Some heavyweights who are rated over him were arguably not even top 3 in their own time. I think there's a good case to rate him in the top 20.

There can be a case to rate him there. I don't. The fact that he was able to beat other Light Heavies and Middles who also happened to be rated at Heavy doesn't change what those men were. Most of the Greb fights were clearly at Light Heavy, for off brand Light Heavy titles. His heavyweight resume is limited IMO and I think #4 at Light Heavy is a more accurate reflection of Tunney's career than top 20 at Heavy. Just my take; I don't think we're that far apart.

As to Wills, he was getting, and was, fairly old by the mid-20s and was avoided while he was the top contender for YEARS. I don't hold it against him that he missed Tunney late considering who else he fought.

[TheGreatA]

There can be a case to rate him there. I don't. The fact that he was able to beat other Light Heavies and Middles who also happened to be rated at Heavy doesn't change what those men were. Most of the Greb fights were clearly at Light Heavy, for off brand Light Heavy titles. His heavyweight resume is limited IMO and I think #4 at Light Heavy is a more accurate reflection of Tunney's career than top 20 at Heavy. Just my take; I don't think we're that far apart.

As to Wills, he was getting, and was, fairly old by the mid-20s and was avoided while he was the top contender for YEARS. I don't hold it against him that he missed Tunney late considering who else he fought.

That entirely depends on whether you consider Greb a legit heavyweight. I do since he beat all the best heavyweights at the time and even Dempsey was said to have feared facing him. I also count those as wins at light heavyweight. I believe Greb would have befuddled many of the previous and future heavyweight champions and given them a difficult time even if he wasn't a heavyweight in stature.

I don't hold it against Wills of course but Wills was top 3 at the time and there was no way Tunney could have fought him since Wills didn't want to fight him. I don't hold that against Tunney either. He beat whoever there was to beat in the late 20's. Maybe he missed Sharkey but in Tunney's defense, Sharkey ended up losing to Dempsey in controversial circumstances, drew with Heeney whom Tunney beat and then was upset by Risko as well in back-to-back fights.

[crold1]

That entirely depends on whether you consider Greb a legit heavyweight. I do since he beat all the best heavyweights at the time and even Dempsey was said to have feared facing him. I also count those as wins at light heavyweight. I believe Greb would have befuddled many of the previous and future heavyweight champions and given them a difficult time even if he wasn't a heavyweight in stature.

I don't hold it against Wills of course but Wills was top 3 at the time and there was no way Tunney could have fought him since Wills didn't want to fight him. I don't hold that against Tunney either. He beat whoever there was to beat in the late 20's. Maybe he missed Sharkey but in Tunney's defense, Sharkey ended up losing to Dempsey in controversial circumstances, drew with Heeney whom Tunney beat and then was upset by Risko as well in back-to-back fights.

I don't hold Tunney or Wills against each other. Wills rating is based on a fuller body of work. As to Greb, I see what you're saying but the Heavyweights he beat can't be assumed as wins for Tunney. They're Greb's wins (while beating Greb and Gibbons is pretty awesome; few did). I still have to view that as Light Heavyweight work and rate it there. Just my take.

As to how he would have done, there are plenty of heavyweights he would have beaten and Tunney at 24 isn't a reflection on how he would have done. I've said before elsewhere....I don't see giant gaps between most of the greats in any class. There are certain matches which would be bad for one fighter or another, but round robin they all get some.