if Pac beats Mayweather and retires, is he automatically on the top 5 GOAT list?

[Roger Mellie]

remember what manny steward was saying on the pac/cotto broadcast, how pac is up there with the ray robinson's and ali's...as of right now, i don't think so, but if he was to beat mayweather and retire for good, would anyone put Pacquiao above those two on their lists?

I think its hard to say that as of now because its hard to rate a fighters all time standing objectively while he is still active. When he retires and the hype and sensationalism dies down you are left with a far clearer picture. From my own point of view he is the best fighter I have seen in my 25 years of following the sport, and I think history will be kind to him.

[JAB5239]

But Floyd beat Pac the same way he beat Marquez and Pac can't hit him then Floyd is top 5 ATG not question.

Look, Floyd is a helluva fighter, but even if he beats Pac he would only be a top 20-30 fighter all time. I'd be happy to debate this with you and tell you why if you can name your reasons why you think May would be top 5.

[talip bin osman]

THAT said, I hope he beats Floyd, but I don't think it will happen.

this is what im feeling too...

i do hope MP proves me wrong... again...

[GoogleMe]

Look, Floyd is a helluva fighter, but even if he beats Pac he would only be a top 20-30 fighter all time. I'd be happy to debate this with you and tell you why if you can name your reasons why you think May would be top 5.

Why should weightdrained and pastprime figthers, whom Pac beat give Pac more credit then Mayweather fighting at the respective weightclass'

[JAB5239]

Why should weightdrained and pastprime figthers, whom Pac beat give Pac more credit then Mayweather fighting at the respective weightclass'

By this I assume you mean Marquez and Hatton? Bottom line is that Manny continues to move up and beat top fighters. Since Floyd passed 135 he's never taken on an upper echelon fighter at 147. Go ahead and sat Baldomir and than ask yourself where he would rank amongst all time welters. Oscar? Decent win, and I give him credit. But no more than I give Manny who has moved up even further weight. Do you really think Floyd will be a top 5 all time great if he beats Pac?

[GoogleMe]

By this I assume you mean Marquez and Hatton? Bottom line is that Manny continues to move up and beat top fighters. Since Floyd passed 135 he's never taken on an upper echelon fighter at 147. Go ahead and sat Baldomir and than ask yourself where he would rank amongst all time welters. Oscar? Decent win, and I give him credit. But no more than I give Manny who has moved up even further weight. Do you really think Floyd will be a top 5 all time great if he beats Pac?

Did I ever say so? I don't think Pacs that good, neither do I think Mayweather is. So top 10, no. I respect Pac for his many fights lately. And disrespect May for having too few. But fact is, that catchweight is ****, and Hatton + Oscar's careers was ended by May. I never mentioned Mayweather fighting top WW. He's a great p4p, but not the king of ww, yet.

[JAB5239]

Did I ever say so? I don't think Pacs that good, neither do I think Mayweather is. So top 10, no. I respect Pac for his many fights lately. And disrespect May for having too few. But fact is, that catchweight is ****, and Hatton + Oscar's careers was ended by May. I never mentioned Mayweather fighting top WW. He's a great p4p, but not the king of ww, yet.

Fair enough. But answer me this please.....How was Oscar ended by a SD? If this was the case the Tito fight should have ruined him years ago. Second....If Hatton was ruined (even after having to come up to 147 after he had stated it wasn't his best weight) how did he beat Malignaggi, who is and was considered one of the top fighters at 140? One defeat rarely ruins a fighters career my friend. Especially when they aren't particularly brutal.

[karrapato]

Yes, no one could possible do what he has done so far. Just impressive, but Mayweather probably is going to win, Pacquiao is a Warrior, Warriors make Floyd look good.

I don't see Pacquiao really trying to box, that's what will make him fail.

If he box's, he got a good chance. If he goes to attack, he is going to get caught for sure.

[GoogleMe]

Fair enough. But answer me this please.....How was Oscar ended by a SD? If this was the case the Tito fight should have ruined him years ago. Second....If Hatton was ruined (even after having to come up to 147 after he had stated it wasn't his best weight) how did he beat Malignaggi, who is and was considered one of the top fighters at 140? One defeat rarely ruins a fighters career my friend. Especially when they aren't particularly brutal.

Kessler ruined by Calzaghe, and I'm not saying this to defend his loss against Ward, but seriously I could see it in his eyes. The savage he once were, was gone after that night. I bet against my countryman, and won a ton of money. One fight ruined him. But that's abit off topic.

I think Oscar wasn't even the same guy when facing Mayweather. So another loss didn't help. Plus he was at 147, which is a weight, that doesn't fit Oscar that well compared to 154.

[JAB5239]

Kessler ruined by Calzaghe, and I'm not saying this to defend his loss against Ward, but seriously I could see it in his eyes. The savage he once were, was gone after that night. I bet against my countryman, and won a ton of money. One fight ruined him. But that's abit off topic.

I think Oscar wasn't even the same guy when facing Mayweather. So another loss didn't help. Plus he was at 147, which is a weight, that doesn't fit Oscar that well compared to 154.

Look, Im not trying to disrespect you, you seem like a decent poster, but saying you saw something in a fighters eyes is a bit of a leap. Exposed for to much hype? I can agree with that. But to many fighters in history have come back from one defeat to be productive. That is also the case with Kessler imo.

As far as the Oscar fight goes concerning both Pac and Floyd.....Neither fought a prime Oscar and neither deserves more credit than the other for their wins. They were money fights. A true test of grit is fighting the best fighters in their divisions. Manny has simply done more of that against better fighters. This doesn't detract from Floyds considerable skill, but its still a fact.