Vitali KlitschkO

[tracylee]

Holyfield sustained the same injury in the 1st round vs Byrd, and fought 11 more rounds in a fight he had to know he was losing.

Well thats understandable...Holyfield is (was) in a league that Vitali will never reach. The man's heart and drive are not comparable..especially to a Klitschko!

[Bozo_no no]

Here we go again:
I'll spell it out for you.. maybe the third time's the charm and even a bozo can understand.

Yes, Vitali LOST to Byrd (by not continuing to fight)
a big However... Byrd NEVER BEAT Vitali! A "W" does not mean he is a better fighter. He did not beat him by points, nor did he knock him out...

Why does that matter?

Looking at it that way is just a way to make yourself feel better about it.

Byrd BEAT Vitali, because he continued fighting and applying pressure, and Vitali quit.

Byrd Won, Vitali LOST.

Stop twisting, sugar coating, re wording.

Your statement "He never REALLY lost" was not the least bit accurate.

He really LOST.



And again, a stat you didn't add to your little list was that his "real" losses make him 0-2 against the two highest class opponents he's faced.

[hollister]

The point is, nearly every Heavyweight champion is less and less effective after the age of 35. Beating Tyson didn't take a lot for Lewis, because Tyson was a mental mess.

A 37 year old Lewis not fighting for a year, gaining weight, and then coming in at a career high (the only other time he came near to that was in the 1st Rahman fight) was FAR from a sharp primed Lennox Lewis. There is no room for debate on this.

Lennox gained weight because he ate too much, that had nothing to do with age, and when he was in shape, his skills were at the level they had been for some time. His speed had not noticeably deteriorated because he was never that fast. The point is, when he trained, he was the same fighter he had always been, he was still capable of obtaining his conditioning, which is the only thing he lacked in his less than stellar performance. Ali and Louis are both considered smaller Heavyweights by today's standards that relied on their handspeed (Ali, footspeed to some extent), and that was gone from Louis, Ali could not have been successful no matter what kind of shape he was in, he had lost everything that won him fights. If Lewis chooses to retire, then that's his decision, but he was never forced into it because he was old or past it, too many people confuse his laziness with age setting in.

[hollister]

We'll see what happens if Chris chicken ever grows the balls to fight either of the Klits. I have a feeling if he gets upset and loses his title, he'll fight one of them because of the money and already having lost all he had to lose, with exception of being able to call himself better than VK because VK gave him the fight.

[Bozo_no no]

Lennox gained weight because he ate too much, that had nothing to do with age, and when he was in shape, his skills were at the level they had been for some time. His speed had not noticeably deteriorated because he was never that fast. The point is, when he trained, he was the same fighter he had always been, he was still capable of obtaining his conditioning, which is the only thing he lacked in his less than stellar performance.

You don't know where his skill level was at, becuase it didn't really take a lot of it to beat Rahman (who's nothing special) or Tyson, who wasn't even mentally fit to have been involved in that fight.

And it was after those fights that Lewis took another year off, didn't train, and put on weight. That is not a good thing for a fighter that age.

Again, the bottom line is that the Lennox Lewis that Vitali fought was not the same Lewis from years earlier, AND was inacitve, and at a career high weight.

There is no way around it. You're twisting things if you're trying to say that Vitali was in with Lewis even close to at his best.

[Bozo_no no]

We'll see what happens if Chris chicken ever grows the balls to fight either of the Klits. I have a feeling if he gets upset and loses his title, he'll fight one of them because of the money and already having lost all he had to lose, with exception of being able to call himself better than VK because VK gave him the fight.

Byrd was and still is available to fight Vitali, but that was never mentioned by Vitali or his camp. They elected to fight Rahman instead, and now that won't even happen for half a year.

We won't know how Wlad would do again until he puts himself in a position to make that fight. All that talk about Wlad fighting Byrd again was a joke. Wlad was brutally beaten by two guys that weren't ranked in the top 20 of any of the major 3 organizations at the time in his last 6 fights. There is NO WAY he deserved a shot at the IBF or any title for that matter at this point. He has a LONG way to go before he puts himself in a spot to fight for a title.

[hollister]

You don't know where his skill level was at, becuase it didn't really take a lot of it to beat Rahman (who's nothing special) or Tyson, who wasn't even mentally fit to have been involved in that fight.

And it was after those fights that Lewis took another year off, didn't train, and put on weight. That is not a good thing for a fighter that age.

Again, the bottom line is that the Lennox Lewis that Vitali fought was not the same Lewis from years earlier, AND was inacitve, and at a career high weight.

There is no way around it. You're twisting things if you're trying to say that Vitali was in with Lewis even close to at his best.

You're not reading my post, I'm saying that Lewis was a fighter that still could have been at his best, had he chosen to. Taking time off, overeating, and not training are all things he did to himself. He retired when he still had some good fights left in him, had he chosen to dedicate himself and train properly. My point is, he retired because he chose to do so, Louis and Ali were both past it, and really had no chance of regaining the title, if anyone was ever forced to retire, it was them. That's why what I was trying to say was that it would not really be fair to compare Lewis' situation to that of Ali or Louis.

[!! Mr. Soprano]

Bozo, you're saying that Byrd is a better fighter? That if they fight again and again Byrd would beat him each time without a doubt?!
Because that's where you're heading!

I guess you don't play pool and you didn't understand my pool example I wrote about earlier... (twice)

Here is another scenario for you, Bozo!

Given:
2 Runners ..
Runner A is a lot faster than Runner B.

If in competition A twisted his ankle and fell (quit due to an injury)
B won the fight (as Bozo says "Because he kept running/fighting")

Question (for you Bozo):
Does it make B a better runner???? YES he got the win, BUT DOES IT MAKE HIM BETTER??

[!! Mr. Soprano]

And that's not sugar coating,that's reality!

[Bozo_no no]

You're not reading my post, I'm saying that Lewis was a fighter that still could have been at his best, had he chosen to.

No what you're doing is making an assumption, and guessing.

You have no idea what Lewis would look like at 37 years old had he not been inactive for one year and had come in at better condition. You don't know that his skill and reflex would have been any better, because it had been a year since he had fought, and when he did, it was agaisnt a version of Tyson that shouldn't have been there.

All you're doing is guessing.

Lewis should have retired after beating Tyson, and he's a smart man for walking away when he did.

What's the sense in fighting until you find out your skills have diminished.

You make no sense.

Heavyweights are less and less effective after 35, and there's a list of former champions who are examples of that.