Was Kessler the number #1 168 Pounder Before fighting Ward?

[jrosales13]

Yes.

Kessler is ranked higher than Bute AND Andrade.

Even if you take out Miranda, factor this in.

Kessler had the better resume than Andrade and Bute, combined. And Ward beat the guy who beat the guy who almost KO'd Bute. And he did it with less experience and fights.

It's just not realistic to assume that somehow Bute ranks higher then the guy who can claim all this.

Bute is 3-0 against top 10 guys. He has wins over 2 guys who are ranked in the top 10. Ward has only beaten 1 top 10 guy. If you compare Ward resume with Bute resume and if you have Ward ahead. Then the way you rank fighters are totally different then the way I rank fighters. To me 1 does not automatically puts you on top. Unless there is a lineal championship at stake

[jrosales13]

yeah he made the 25 count

You didn't watch the fight. He was up at 8...

[Shadows]

What I am telling is that whoever has the better resume at 168 is the consensus the #1 guy. Was Ward win over kessler better than Bute win over Andrade? Probably so but was that win bigger cuz Ward opposition before Kessler was very low. Bute is 3-0 against top 10 fighters. Ward is 1-0. Are you honestly telling me that Ward has a better resume at 168 than Bute has?

I think people are looking into the fact that both Andrade and Bika are fairly limited brawlers that Bute should beat. Also, despite his knockout tonight, Bute was a bit fortunate in the first Andrade fight.

Ward on the other hand, totally outclassed a fighter he was supposed to lose against and one that many looked upon as the best fighter at 168 and the one with the best resume.

Like I said, it depends what you put more stock into.

[Madvillain]

What I am telling is that whoever has the better resume at 168 is the consensus the #1 guy. Was Ward win over kessler better than Bute win over Andrade? Probably so but was that win bigger cuz Ward opposition before Kessler was very low. Bute is 3-0 against top 10 fighters. Ward is 1-0. Are you honestly telling me that Ward has a better resume at 168 than Bute has?

This is where we split. But I'll say it, Ward beat the strongest opponent in the division. That takes precedence over... what? Surviving (impervious to pain or not) a VERY limited Andrade? a past his prime William Joppy? Suckio Bika?

And say Ward was the #2 guy in the division, what would you say if he then went on to beat Taylor and Dirrell in the Super Six? Surely that would be a more impressive resume than Bute's, would you admit Ward was the best?

[jrosales13]

that dude is from texas he probably thinks that juarez did draw chris john... and diaz beat malignaggi...he's use to these controversial outcomes....bute was backpeddaling like a fcukin defensive back..to bad a hometown ref had to tell andrade to go into his corner where he already was, then didn't even start the count right away haha!!!!!!!!!!

I was actually born and raised in L.A move to Texas a year. Ago don't assume ****. You don't know what you talking about. But, is cool.

BTW I had John clearly winning both fights. And, I had Malignnaggi winning a close fight. I didn't think it was a robbery like everybody else did

[onedream722]

You didn't watch the fight. He was up at 8...

alright whatever u say...

[jrosales13]

This is where we split. But I'll say it, Ward beat the strongest opponent in the division. That takes precedence over... what? Surviving (impervious to pain or not) a VERY limited Andrade? a past his prime William Joppy? Suckio Bika?

And say Ward was the #2 guy in the division, what would you say if he then went on to beat Taylor and Dirrell in the Super Six? Surely that would be a more impressive resume than Bute's, would you admit Ward was the best?

If he goes and beat Taylor and Dirrell then yes he would have a better resume than Bute. Where he could take over the #1 ranking. Again there is no lineal involved. You don't have to be the #1 rank guy to take over the spot.

Is rankings 1-10 you can move up and down by who you fight how impressive you look. Who other fighters are fighting. It can change. The only thing that can not change that way is lineal claim

[jrosales13]

I think people are looking into the fact that both Andrade and Bika are fairly limited brawlers that Bute should beat. Also, despite his knockout tonight, Bute was a bit fortunate in the first Andrade fight.

Ward on the other hand, totally outclassed a fighter he was supposed to lose against and one that many looked upon as the best fighter at 168 and the one with the best resume.

Like I said, it depends what you put more stock into.

You can't say well they are limited so it is not that good of a win. Cuz I can go ahead and say Kessler is limited as well. He fights in a straight line and anybody who moves side to side and gives him angles will beat him. Cuz he can't adjust he is limited. But, that that will be discrediting Andre Ward for that. I would not discredit a big win for Ward. So why discredit Bute wins? Fact is both Andrade and Bika are ranked top 10 SMW. And, all of us consider SMW as a deep stack division. And, these 2 fighters are top 10. Bute beat both of them. That is my argument. If we go with Andrade and Bika are limited then Kessler is also limited.

[Madvillain]

If he goes and beat Taylor and Dirrell then yes he would have a better resume than Bute. Where he could take over the #1 ranking. Again there is no lineal involved. You don't have to be the #1 rank guy to take over the spot.

Is rankings 1-10 you can move up and down by who you fight how impressive you look. Who other fighters are fighting. It can change. The only thing that can not change that way is lineal claim

Fair enough, you and I are just going in circles. I give it to Ward, Kessler was the best, Ward's undefeated, he beats Kessler, he wins a 168 title. He's the best.

I see what you're saying, but I can't agree.

[Benny Leonard]

Before fighting Ward, Kessler was ranked #3 by both BoxRec and the IBO, behind Bute and Abraham on BoxRec, and behind Bute and Froch on the IBO's ratings. Lets face it, he hadn't done much since Calzaghe.

Boxrec and IBO rankings are based on a computerized system, not on opinion.

How much do you really want to go by BoxRec?

Look at their ratings All Time for HW:

http://boxrec.com/ratings.php?countr...us=E&SUBMIT=Go

Do you agree with every one?


If you want to stick with computers with this sport, why bother even fighting?
Let's just stick them in a computer and press simulation.