Was Kessler the number #1 168 Pounder Before fighting Ward?

[THe TRiNiTY]

Keep in mind, people. I'm a pretty sizeable Bute fan. I'm Mexican and picked him to beat Andrade, both times. I MIGHT have a hard time picking between he and Ward, not sure yet. Regardless, the stats just don't favor him over Ward in terms of work done at 168. It's close, but Ward edges him.

[jrosales13]

How can you call yourself the #1 guy at 168 if you don't beat the man that beat the man?

Is the real lineal championship vacant at 168? If you say yes then yes you don't have to beat the #1 rank guy to take over the #1 spot. Not if you think that Kessler was the real lineal champion then yes Ward is the man. But, if you believe Kessler was the lineal champ you would be wrong.

[THe TRiNiTY]

There's no denying Ward and Bute are 1 and 2. But I don't see how you can put Bute over the guy that DESTROYED the top guy in the division.

My thoughts exactly.

Ward has two name guys and with less fights.

Has a 'title,' aswell.

Ward beat the guy that most respectable lists had as number one.

Bute struggled with the guy that got schooled by the guy that Ward just beat.

Bute just isn't the number one guy. He's a VERY solid number 2, however, as until he and Ward fight, it's not like Ward can claim much over him anyway.

Title's vacant. Let's just hope they fight sometime down the road.

[jrosales13]

And Kessler didn't get dropped and took it a half round better. That's still makes the win more impressive. Regardless of how you cut it.

Ok he fucked up for half a round and took a rematch. knocked him out in 4 rounds. Regardless of how you cut it. This performance against Andrade who is still a top 10 was better than what Kessler did do Andrade, than what Bute did to Andrade the first time, and what Ward did do Kessler.

[jrosales13]

At 168, Ward has virtually swept all rounds in both fights with Miranda and Kessler. That's two ranked or former ranked fighters. Guys who had fought Abraham and Calzaghe and faired alright, though Miranda got killed in the rematch. Nonetheless, both name guys and decent tests.

Bute has one SOLID win over a lower ranked Andrade and thats AFTER almost losing to the guy who got schooled by Kessler, whom Ward beat.

I don't see how people can say Bute is or should be ranked higher than Ward.

Both great fighters. I just hope they fight and settle it once and for all. Regardless, Ward takes the top spot, to me.

Where was Miranda ranked when Ward beat him?

[onedream722]

Ok he ****ed for half a round and got took a rematch in knocked him out in 4 rounds. Regardless of how you cut it. This performance against Andrade who is still a top 10 was better than what Kessler did do Andrade, than what Bute did to Andrade the first time, and what Ward did do Kessler.

im not saying judges are reliable but all the judges gave every round to kessler and bute did not win all 11 rounds with andrade..regardless bute should have lost that first fight with andrade...a limited fighter with absolutely no defense

[THe TRiNiTY]

Where was Miranda ranked when Ward beat him?

I did mention formerly ranked.

Regardless, was Kessler ranked higher than Andrade?

[jrosales13]

im not saying judges are reliable but all the judges gave every round to kessler and bute did not win all 11 rounds with andrade..

Did Bute not clearly win that fight? Did Bute not clearly schooled Andrade until he ran out of gas? Did Bute not just KO'd a top 10 fighter who has never been KO'd before?

[onedream722]

Ok he fucked up for half a round and took a rematch. knocked him out in 4 rounds. Regardless of how you cut it. This performance against Andrade who is still a top 10 was better than what Kessler did do Andrade, than what Bute did to Andrade the first time, and what Ward did do Kessler.

kessler only needed to do it one time because it was a 12 round sweep!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Shadows]

All of this is subjective, and I think you can make an argument for either guy. It's really what you put more stock into, to be honest.

Having said that, I think most people believed Kessler was the best super middleweight, and that most people looked upon Bute as the beneficiary of hometown reffing.

At least, that's the sense I got from reading the posts around here.