Saul Ducking Fat Dave Made No Sense

[Spray_resistant]

He's big and fat cutting from 200+, has a high work rate, and better defensively than given credit for. This would have been a tough night at the office for Canelo even if he managed to win and Canelo didn't like the risky prospect of it.

[adamjones]

It made perfect sense ducking him. He knew he couldn’t win. Simple as that. He managed to squeeze a bunch of easy fights and extend his fake "aura" of being an elite fighter, and with that came all the accolades and tons of money, but mostly for a narcissist like him it just felt good that people were calling him the best, the champ, etc… like a sell my house cash Buyer in Houstan texas carefully picking his opportunities, he also knew he had nowhere else to run to. He couldn’t go down to 160, he couldn’t compete at 175 clearly. It was either duck Benavidez or create a new 172-pound division to hide in, but he already tried that when he was ducking GGG. He hoped people wouldn’t realize he was ducking, or he hoped Benavidez would lose or move up, but it became too obvious.

I get what you’re saying, but I don’t fully agree. There’s a difference between risk management and “ducking,” especially at that level where business, timing, injuries, and mandatory obligations all matter. Avoiding one opponent doesn’t automatically erase what someone’s already done in the sport, and careers aren’t always as simple as “fight this guy or you’re scared.” Benavidez is dangerous, sure, but that doesn’t mean every other fight was fake or that the accolades were meaningless.

[Oracle01]

I get what you’re saying, but I don’t fully agree. There’s a difference between risk management and “ducking,” .

explain the difference

[RockyKO]

You can say that he isn't elite because he did lose to the elite fighters during his era but then again most elite fighters did. SRR lost to Jake LaMotta, Randy Turpin, and Gene Fullmer. He still beat legends such as Henry Armstrong, Kid Gavilan, and beat Jake LaMotta several times. Most elite fighters lose eventually and are still remembered in history. I'm not Canelo's biggest fan but he did dominate 168 and you can say whatever you want about Callum Smith, Billy Joe Saunders and Plant but they were undefeated when Canelo fought them.

I'm not saying that he's a GOAT and I don't think most of his fans are either. I'm just saying a world champ in 4 divisions should be acknowledged. Boxing is a brutal sport.

Maybe not a GOAT but....elite? Yes.

[SouthpawRight]

I get what you’re saying, but I don’t fully agree. There’s a difference between risk management and “ducking,” especially at that level where business, timing, injuries, and mandatory obligations all matter. Avoiding one opponent doesn’t automatically erase what someone’s already done in the sport, and careers aren’t always as simple as “fight this guy or you’re scared.” Benavidez is dangerous, sure, but that doesn’t mean every other fight was fake or that the accolades were meaningless.

explain the difference

this is an example of RISK MANAGEMENT:

When Fat Dave turned down an opportunity to face Buff Guy Artur next in 2021. Buff Guy Artur was champ the next division up 175 while Fat Dave could still make 168


the term duck gets misused by entitled boxing fans. Anytime a match is delayed by even one fight they cry duck

sht happens fighters need to test the waters in new weights with an easy opp, tune ups to shake off rust, easy fights between major matches because back to back big punishment is no good

he wasnt p4p #1 since losing to bivol 4 years ago. he spent the last 4+ years ducking benavidez. he lost to crawford in embarrassing fashion. he beat no one who was very good in between those 2 losses. so how is that elite? he wanted you to think he was elite but to be elite you have to do elite things. you cant rest on your laurels and thats exactly what he did. it was a charade, a conn, a sham. he was good enough to beat the B or C level guys in his division but he has no A level wins since plant, and benavidez beat down plant as well. if he wanted to prove who was best he had the chance but he chose to take easy fights. he abdicated his "throne" in other words and any claim to being elite or the king of the division. or in modern parlance, he wasnt that guy, pal.

You can say that he isn't elite because he did lose to the elite fighters during his era but then again most elite fighters did. SRR lost to Jake LaMotta, Randy Turpin, and Gene Fullmer. He still beat legends such as Henry Armstrong, Kid Gavilan, and beat Jake LaMotta several times. Most elite fighters lose eventually and are still remembered in history. I'm not Canelo's biggest fan but he did dominate 168 and you can say whatever you want about Callum Smith, Billy Joe Saunders and Plant but they were undefeated when Canelo fought them.

I'm not saying that he's a GOAT and I don't think most of his fans are either. I'm just saying a world champ in 4 divisions should be acknowledged. Boxing is a brutal sport.

Maybe not a GOAT but....elite? Yes.

poster daggum often crosses the line into trolling with criticisms of fighters he dislikes

Saul is/was an elite and a hall of fame lock

Only elites become p4p king in the first place

Far from the GOAT but Saul is a lower tier all time great somewhere between the Oscar de La Hoya and Shane Mosley level

Sugar Robinson ultimately got the better of all of his rivals who beat him. Jake Randy and Gene were knocked out. Carmen was beat to a shut eye

conquering all rivals is a big contributor to his goat status

He's big and fat cutting from 200+, has a high work rate, and better defensively than given credit for. This would have been a tough night at the office for Canelo even if he managed to win and Canelo didn't like the risky prospect of it.

I ponder how Fat Dave's volume would be had Santos fought him

Santos has a great defense himself [no one has made Top Soviet Bivol miss that much] and would be the most skilled Fat Dave has faced

Fat Dave's spear jab to exploit Santos slow feet

Santos packs more power than Fat Dave but could be made into a sitting duck

Santos in a hard fought 7-5 Fat Dave had it happen in 2023 with neither neutralizing the other stylistically

[Haka]

Because it never happened, it seems that FakeVidez is massively protected himself, how many years has he been in the spotlights riding off of the coattails of Nelo while declining the face off after Nelo called him into the ring after Munguia, and how many big fights has he been in since associating with Canelo from 2018 onwards ? In the meantime how many times did he turn down Beter and Bivol ? This narrative that is pushed has all the hallmarks of a fabricated storyline.

[Damn Wicked]

I would have favoured Benevidez to beat Canelo any time in the last 7 years. Probably even before that. There's a reason why Canelo chose not to fight Benevidez when the whole world was calling for that fight. First it was, "I don't fight my fellow Mexicans", then it was, "He's a weight bully and he should beat some bigger names, then maybe I'll fight him for 200 Million." I like Canelo but he's been picking and choosing all the weaker opponents for the last 5 or 6 years and you could see he was declining noticeably. He was supposed to wipe out Berlenga, Mungaia, John Ryder and William Scull...and everyone one of those fighters gave him a difficult night's work! People have been talking about Canelo's physical prime being in decline for very long time. BUT even before that decline I would have favoured Benevidez to beat him. Canelo has always had an issue with volume and stamina. A big, durable, strong guy like Benevidez and the stamina he possesses would be HELL for Canelo.

[Oracle01]

Because it never happened, it seems that FakeVidez is massively protected himself, how many years has he been in the spotlights riding off of the coattails of Nelo while declining the face off after Nelo called him into the ring after Munguia, and how many big fights has he been in since associating with Canelo from 2018 onwards ? In the meantime how many times did he turn down Beter and Bivol ? This narrative that is pushed has all the hallmarks of a fabricated storyline.

He never turned down Beterbiev and Bivol. Infact Bivol is the one who turned him down and handed his belt to Benavidez.David has fought 5 top level fighters in a row which nobody else in the sport is doing. Not a single bum show case fight, all top contenders and ex champions. Do you even follow the sport? You have the audacity to mention a face off with Canelo after he ducked him or years? Why didn't canelo call him into the ring on the mic ? Because he never wanted him in the ring. He was calling to someone else next to David.

[Haka]

He never turned down Beterbiev and Bivol. Infact Bivol is the one who turned him down and handed his belt to Benavidez.David has fought 5 top level fighters in a row which nobody else in the sport is doing. Not a single bum show case fight, all top contenders and ex champions. Do you even follow the sport? You have the audacity to mention a face off with Canelo after he ducked him or years? Why didn't canelo call him into the ring on the mic ? Because he never wanted him in the ring. He was calling to someone else next to David.

That is the exact post that I made but flipped on it's head, apparently you agree with it.

[SouthpawRight]

Because it never happened, it seems that FakeVidez is massively protected himself, how many years has he been in the spotlights riding off of the coattails of Nelo while declining the face off after Nelo called him into the ring after Munguia, and how many big fights has he been in since associating with Canelo from 2018 onwards ? In the meantime how many times did he turn down Beter and Bivol ? This narrative that is pushed has all the hallmarks of a fabricated storyline.

problem for Fat Dave is he hasn’t had any big fight opportunities

Top Soviet Bivol-Buff Guy Artur have unfinished business

I consider Cuban Dave and Fat Gilbert big fights

Fat Gilbert is a good opponent but not the best at the weight which belongs to Buff Guy Jai

I don’t expect a fighter to face the absolute best in a weight in their first bout in a new division

I would have favoured Benevidez to beat Canelo any time in the last 7 years. Probably even before that. There's a reason why Canelo chose not to fight Benevidez when the whole world was calling for that fight. First it was, "I don't fight my fellow Mexicans", then it was, "He's a weight bully and he should beat some bigger names, then maybe I'll fight him for 200 Million." I like Canelo but he's been picking and choosing all the weaker opponents for the last 5 or 6 years and you could see he was declining noticeably. He was supposed to wipe out Berlenga, Mungaia, John Ryder and William Scull...and everyone one of those fighters gave him a difficult night's work! People have been talking about Canelo's physical prime being in decline for very long time. BUT even before that decline I would have favoured Benevidez to beat him. Canelo has always had an issue with volume and stamina. A big, durable, strong guy like Benevidez and the stamina he possesses would be HELL for Canelo.

has he

the guys Santos struggled with weren’t punch spammers but were all known for picking their shots: Floyd Erislandy golovkin Top Soviet Bivol TBud