Comments Thread For: Hall of Fame announcement: The surprises; the snubs; the sentimentality

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  • IronDanHamza
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    #21
    Originally posted by MalevolentBite

    So what you are saying he had a better career then Gatti who's in the hall of fame correct?

    Chris John probably is one of the longest reigning title holders ever. That still is an achievement.
    Arturo Gatti is an exception to the rule.

    What is difficult about that to understand with you people?

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    • TheProudLunatic
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      #22
      Originally posted by tokon
      PED cheats should automatically be excluded from HOF.
      What did Triple Flop do that no one else could have done ?

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      • DeeMoney
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        #23
        Originally posted by -Kev-
        Golovkin has to get in due to who’s already in. He looks like a superstar compared to some of the HOF boxers. His track record vs elite fighters is almost non existent. He also had no issues going up to 168 for Chavez, but not for Andre Ward. He wanted to bring down Ward to 165lbs basically so that Ward can say no and give GGG an off-ramp.

        I’m not denying he belongs in the IBHOF, i’m saying if the IBHOF took itself as serious as other sport’s HOF, he and several other boxers wouldn’t be in.

        But in the version of the HOF that exists in boxing, he absolutely belongs there, no questions asked. His resume makes him look like Sugar Ray Robinson in comparison to some HOF inductees. He’s 1st ballot in this intentionally watered down HOF. I mean there HOF event every single year. It’s not some highly prestigious honor that happens every 3-4 years.

        I find that interesting, because I think the IBHOF aligns with other major sports HOFs in north America quite well. I know this is supposed to be a hat on GGG thread, or one that complains that the HOF is watered down, but I think the numbers show other wise.

        To Start, lets look at the induction percentage from the other four major North American Sports, based on # of athletes/number of participants
        Football- 1.1%
        Baseball- 1.3%
        Basketball 2.7% (please note this only measures those who played in the NBA)
        Hockey 3.7%

        Now, for boxing, this is harder to measure, as there are many boxers who box professionally, but do so only occasionally, and not on par with other professional athletes, where is their primary means of employment. So, for this we had to do some estimation, all of which falls between the years 1943-2010 (the start of when the modern era for the IBHOF begins, and ending off in 2010 so as not to count fighters who still may be fighting, and are thus ineligible.

        Suppose on average during this era there were globally ≈ 8,000 active pros at any given time. With a ~4-year average career (turnover), number of unique professionals over 68 years that totals 136,000. So roughly 136,000 distinct people boxed professionally sometime between 1943–2010 (globally). Still, we want to estimate of those who actually “lived on boxing income for at least one year” or what we could equate to being a pro athlete on par for the other sports mentioned. Given economic and competitive realities, only a small fraction of all pros would have earned enough — especially in older decades with lower purses. I’ll assume conservatively 5%–8% of those pros managed to make boxing their primary income for at least one full year.

        Thus number earning a living from boxing at some point is probably between 6,800- 10,800 with a reasonable “midpoint” estimate around 8,500
        Now, if there are 112 modern ear fighters in the IBHOF, then that comes out to about a 1.3% induction rate. Which is on par or better than most other sports. I would argue that the IBHOF is doing a solid job as a gatekeeper in this regards.

        Of course there is another major difference between boxing and all other major sports (even most non team sports). Boxing does not have a standardized schedule or organized league. For all other sports, we can better compare athletes to one another because they are mandated to compete on a regular schedule against each other. In boxing, not only do you have a fracture due to weight classes (which is acceptable) but you have one where fighters are not all granted anywhere near the same opportunity to compete and show their ability.

        Could you imagine an NFL owner postponing the Super Bowl a few years to let it ‘Marinate’ and hopefully get better ratings. Or an NBA team dropping their championship aspirations in a trash can as opposed to competing. Would never happen. Ergo, in boxing we need to take into account somewhat of an eye test when determining greatness, it cant all be resume and stats because of the aforementioned lack of organized mandated scheduling. Luckily, it is possible for rational, relatively impartial observers to make such evaluations. Sadly, just reading posts on this website, it becomes clear many fans are neither rational nor impartial.

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        • TheProudLunatic
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          #24
          Originally posted by DeeMoney

          Could you imagine an NFL owner postponing the Super Bowl a few years to let it ‘Marinate’ and hopefully get better ratings
          Can you imagine boxing being run like a real sport ?
          And sometimes, financially speaking, it's best to let a fight gain traction.
          Boxers have to maximize their EARNING potential

          Boxing is not going to be there for them when they retire.

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          • Theshotyoudontsee
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            #25
            GGG?



            90% ko rate

            Multi-belt title holder at middleweight for roughly a decade

            Unified middleweight titleholder for three years

            20 consecutive title defenses

            Clearly beat Canelo in their first fight AFTER Canelo ducked him and aged him out for years

            GGG was never knocked down or seriously hurt in his career


            HOF worthy? Yep.

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            • TheProudLunatic
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              #26
              Originally posted by Theshotyoudontsee
              GGG?



              90% ko rate

              Multi-belt title holder at middleweight for roughly a decade

              Unified middleweight titleholder for three years

              20 consecutive title defenses

              Clearly beat Canelo in their first fight AFTER Canelo ducked him and aged him out for years

              GGG was never knocked down or seriously hurt in his career


              HOF worthy? Yep.
              You repeated the same compliments 3x

              If you can mention a quality GGG opp NOT NAME NELO, it will be a miracle.

              "Jacobs !"

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              • TheProudLunatic
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                #27
                ......
                Nunez
                Tapia
                Ouma
                Simon
                Fuchigami
                Proksa
                Rosado
                Ishida
                Macklin
                Stevens
                Adama
                Geale
                Rubio
                Murray
                Monroe jr
                LeMeh
                Wade
                Brook
                Jacobs (FINALLY !!!!!!)
                Vanes
                Rolls
                Shortychenko (TOP 10 Robbery !!!!!)
                Kamil
                Murata

                No one else could have dominated this line up

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                • The D3vil
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                  #28
                  Originally posted by -Kev-
                  Golovkin has to get in due to who’s already in. He looks like a superstar compared to some of the HOF boxers. His track record vs elite fighters is almost non existent. He also had no issues going up to 168 for Chavez, but not for Andre Ward. He wanted to bring down Ward to 165lbs basically so that Ward can say no and give GGG an off-ramp.

                  I’m not denying he belongs in the IBHOF, i’m saying if the IBHOF took itself as serious as other sport’s HOF, he and several other boxers wouldn’t be in.

                  But in the version of the HOF that exists in boxing, he absolutely belongs there, no questions asked. His resume makes him look like Sugar Ray Robinson in comparison to some HOF inductees. He’s 1st ballot in this intentionally watered down HOF. I mean there HOF event every single year. It’s not some highly prestigious honor that happens every 3-4 years.
                  In what world or sport would somebody who's champion for 9 years in a major sanctioning body with 20 defenses of their title.

                  And was named the #1 person in their sport (Ring P4P #1) would not be in the Hall of Fame

                  Matter of fact, can you name ONE Ring Magazine P4P #1 fighter who's NOT in the Hall of Fame

                  He's also one of the greatest amateur fighters of all-time as well.

                  You forgot that also goes into the consideration


                  Originally posted by TheProudLunatic
                  ......
                  Nunez
                  Tapia
                  Ouma
                  Simon
                  Fuchigami
                  Proksa
                  Rosado
                  Ishida
                  Macklin
                  Stevens
                  Adama
                  Geale
                  Rubio
                  Murray
                  Monroe jr
                  LeMeh
                  Wade
                  Brook
                  Jacobs (FINALLY !!!!!!)
                  Vanes
                  Rolls
                  Shortychenko (TOP 10 Robbery !!!!!)
                  Kamil
                  Murata

                  No one else could have dominated this line up
                  First off, nobody else did.

                  Second off, you should've told Sergio Martinez, Peter Quillin, Danny Jacobs, Miguel Cotto, & Canelo to fight the prime version of GGG, but they were all too pxssy & avoided him until he was 35 years old

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                  • TheProudLunatic
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                    #29
                    Originally posted by The D3vil
                    First off, nobody else did.

                    Second off, you should've told Sergio Martinez, Peter Quillin, Danny Jacobs, Miguel Cotto, & Canelo to fight the prime version of GGG, but they were all too pxssy & avoided him until he was 35 years old
                    1) Imagine someone being allowed to fight so many BUMS IN A ROW
                    Which of those BUMS impressed you the most ?!?!?!

                    2) Triple Flop wanted to fight Sergio after a fight where he injured his leg (Sergio is also older than GGGeezer)

                    Peter Quillin and Gennady Golovkin never fought primarily because they were on different career paths with different promoters and sanctioning bodies, and a matchup was never officially negotiated.

                    Cotto is also older than GGGeezer

                    Prime GGGeezer was too busy chasing BUMS to actually keep his "ANYONE from 154-168" promise.

                    Cotto, Sergio, Nelo and even Peter all have deeper resumes than Triple Flop

                    A lil homework ON YOUR END could have saved you rolling out the same nonsensical excuses

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                    • TheProudLunatic
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                      #30
                      "Hmmmm......I can fight this guy and make $3 mil OR fight that guy and make $20 mil......Let me think........"

                      I wonder what choice so called fight fans would have made !!!!!

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