Comments Thread For: Who's boxing's No. 1?

[Jab jab boom]

[QUOTE=Corelone;n32467373]

In order to be #1 he has to do something special. Winning when you are the favorite is not special.

Interesting logic. By these standards, Floyd Mayweather - not special. Marvin Hagler - Not special. Julio Cesar Chavez - Not special. Terrence Crawford - Not special.

[Corelone]

[QUOTE=Jab jab boom;n32467391]

Interesting logic. By these standards, Floyd Mayweather - not special. Marvin Hagler - Not special. Julio Cesar Chavez - Not special. Terrence Crawford - Not special.

We dont need a history lesson. When Usyk beat AJ, Usyk was not the favorite. Most people thought he was too small. Say 126 to Inoue and he says Im too small.

[Citizen Koba]

I keep running resumes for my top 4, and each of the top 3 has his own argument. Bam is a future #1, but he's not quite there yet.

TBRB rankings used, secondary/interim belts ignored

Terence Crawford:
W vs #3 Ricky Burns UD 12 (fmr. WBO 130; reigning WBO 135; future WBA 140)
W vs #7 Yuriorkis Gamboa TKO 9 (fmr. WBA/IBF 126)
W vs #2 Raymundo Beltran UD 12 (future WBO 135)
W vs #9 Thomas Dulorme TKO 6
W vs #1 Viktor Postol UD 12 (reigning WBC 140)
W vs #3 John Molina TKO 8
W vs #9 Felix Diaz RTD 10 (Diaz ranked at 147, fight at 140)
W vs #1 Julius Indongo KO 3 (reigning WBA/IBF 140)
W vs #4 Jeff Horn TKO 9 (reigning WBO 147)
W vs Amir Khan TKO 6 (fmr. WBA/IBF 140)
W vs #10 Egidijus Kavaliauskas TKO 9
W vs Kell Brook TKO 4 (fmr. IBF 147)
W vs #4 Shawn Porter TKO 10 (fmr. IBF 147; WBC 147)
W vs #9 David Avanesyan KO 6
W vs #1 Errol Spence Jr. TKO 9 (reigning WBA/WBC/IBF 147)
W vs #3 Israil Madrimov UD 12 (reigning WBA 154)

Other notable victories: Breidis Prescott, Andrey Klimov, Dierry Jean, Hank Lundy, Jose Benavidez Jr

14-0 vs top 10
9-0 vs top 5
4-0 vs #1 (or #2 if Crawford was #1)
11-0 vs fighters that won a legitimate world title
6-0 vs reigning world titlists
3-0 in unification fights
19-0 in world title fights
6-0 in lineal world championship fights
41-0-0-0 overall record, 31 KOs

135: Lineal/TBRB, Ring, WBO
140: Lineal/TBRB, Ring, WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO undisputed
147: Lineal/TBRB, Ring, WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO undisputed
154: WBA

3 division lineal world champion
2 division undisputed world champion
4 division world titlist

Notable achievements:
-One of only nine men to be lineal champion in three weight classes (Fitzsimmons, Ross, Armstrong, Canzoneri, Leonard, De La Hoya, Mayweather, Pacquiao)
-One of only four men in the 3/4 belt eras to be undisputed in two weight classes (Holyfield [3 belt], Inoue, Usyk)

Naoya Inoue:
W vs #10 Ryoichi Taguchi UD 10 (ftr. WBA/IBF/Ring 108)
W vs #1 Adrian Hernandez TKO 6 (fmr. and reigning WBC 108)
W vs #1 Omar Narvaez KO 2 (fmr. WBO 112; reigning WBO 115)
W vs #8 Kohei Kono TKO 6 (fmr. 2X WBA 112)
W vs #5 Jamie McDonnell TKO 1 (fmr. IBF 118)
W vs #5 Juan Carlos Payano KO 1 (fmr. WBA 118)
W vs #6 Emmanuel Rodriguez KO 2 (reigning and ftr. IBF 118)
W vs #4 Nonito Donaire UD 12 (fmr. IBF 112; WBC/WBO 118; WBO/IBF 122; WBA 126; WBO 122; reigning WBA 118; ftr. WBC 118)
W vs #8 Jason Moloney KO 7 (future WBO 118)
W vs #2 Nonito Donaire TKO 2 (fmr. IBF 112; WBC/WBO 118; WBO/IBF 122; WBA 126; WBO 122; WBA 118; reigning WBC 118)
W vs #8 Paul Butler KO 11 (fmr. IBF 118; reigning WBO 118)
W vs #1 Stephen Fulton TKO 8 (reigning WBC/WBO 122; ftr. WBC 126)
W vs #2 Marlon Tapales KO 10 (reigning WBA/IBF 122)
W vs #3 Luis Nery KO 6 (fmr. WBC 118; WBC 122)
W vs TJ Doheny TKO 7 (fmr. IBF 122)
W vs #5 Ramon Cardenas TKO 8

Other notable victories: Petchbarngborn Kokietgym, Antonio Nieves, Michael Dasmarinas

15-0 vs top 10
10-0 vs top 5
5-0 vs #1 (or #2 if Inoue was #1)
15-0 vs fighters that won a legitimate world title
8-0 vs reigning world titlists
6-0 in unification fights
23-0 in world title fights (not counting WBA Regular)
7-0 in lineal world championship fights
30-0-0-0 overall record, 27 KOs

108: WBC
112: (none)
115: WBO
118: Lineal/TBRB, Ring, WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO undisputed
122: Lineal/TBRB, Ring, WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO undisputed

2 division lineal world champion
2 division undisputed world champion
4 division world titlist

Notable achievement:
One of only four men in the 3/4 belt eras to be undisputed in two weight classes (Holyfield [3 belt], Crawford, Usyk)

Oleksandr Usyk
W vs #2 Krzysztof Glowacki UD 12 (reigning and future WBO cruiserweight)
W vs #10 Marco Huck TKO 10 (fmr. WBO crusierweight)
W vs #6 Mairis Briedis MD 12 (reigning WBC cruiserweight; future WBO cruiserweight; IBF/Ring/TBRB/lineal cruiserweight)
W vs #2 Murat Gassiev UD 12 (reigning WBA/IBF cruiserweight)
W vs Tony Bellew KO 8 (fmr. WBC cruiserweight)
W vs #1 Anthony Joshua UD 12 (fmr. and reigning WBA/IBF/WBO heavyweight)
W vs #2 Anthony Joshua SD 12 (fmr. 2X WBA/IBF/WBO heavyweight)
W vs Daniel Dubois KO 9 (ftr. IBF heavyweight)
W vs #1 Tyson Fury SD 12 (fmr. WBA/IBF/WBO/2X Ring/2X TBRB, reigning WBC/lineal heavyweight)
W vs #1 Tyson Fury UD 12 (fmr 2X lineal/TBRB/Ring; WBC; WBO/WBA/IBF)


Other notable victories: Thabiso Mchunu, Michael Hunter, Derek Chisora

8-0 vs top 10
6-0 vs top 5
5-0 vs #1 (or #2 if Usyk was #1)
10-0 vs fighters that won a legitimate world title
5-0 vs reigning world titlists
3-0 in unification fights
12-0 in world title fights
4-0 in lineal world championship fights
23-0-0-0 overall record, 14 KOs

Cruiserweight: Lineal/TBRB, Ring, WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO undisputed
Heavyweight: Lineal/TBRB, Ring, WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO undisputed (plus IBO)

2 division lineal world champion
2 division undisputed world champion
2 division world titlist

Notable achievement:
-Usyk is 10-0 in his opponents' home countries and 5-0 on neutral ground, including 3-0 vs the A-side fighter in Saudi Arabia
-One of only four men in the 3/4 belt eras to be undisputed in two weight classes (Holyfield [3 belt], Crawford, Inoue)

Jesse Rodriguez
W vs #8 Carlos Cuadras UD 12 (fmr. WBC 115)
W vs #2 Srisaket Sor Rungvisai TKO 8 (fmr WBC 115; lineal/TBRB/Ring/WBC 115)
W vs #1 Sunny Edwards RTD 9 (reigning IBF 112)
W vs #C Juan Francisco Estrada KO 7 (fmr. WBA/WBO 112; WBA 115; reigning lineal/TBRB/Ring/WBC 115)
W vs #7 Pedro Guevara TKO 3 (fmr. WBC 112)

Other notable victories: Israel Gonzalez

5-0 vs top 10
3-0 vs top 5
2-0 vs #1 or Champion
5-0 vs fighters that won a legitimate world title
2-0 vs reigning world titlists
1-0 in unification fights
7-0 in world title fights
2-0 in lineal world championship fights
21-0-0-0 overall record, 14 KOs

1 division lineal world champion
2 division world titlist

112: IBF, WBO
115: WBC; Lineal, TBRB, Ring, WBC

Massively appreciating the stats based breakdown. Course there's intangibles too, like Usyk's taking on guys very much larger and his late start in the pros, but taking the subjectivity out of the equation gets the debate off to a really good start, creates a good framework for discussion. Kudos man. Crazy how tight the stats are for Inoue and Bud, just a whisker between em on almost all meaningful acomplishments in the sport.

[famicommander]

Massively appreciating the stats based breakdown. Course there's intangibles too, like Usyk's taking on guys very much larger and his late start in the pros, but taking the subjectivity out of the equation gets the debate off to a really good start, creates a good framework for discussion. Kudos man. Crazy how tight the stats are for Inoue and Bud, just a whisker between em on almost all meaningful acomplishments in the sport.

The major difference between Crawford and Inoue is that Inoue was able to turn himself into the cash cow for his weight and the surrounding weights, so he is able to select any opponent he wants at any time. That wasn't the case in his few weights, but by the time he got to 118 it was clear that an Inoue fight was too big of a check for any opponent to want to duck.

Crawford, on the other hand, ended up frozen out by promotional politics and never really proved himself to be a huge draw at the box office. So he had to spend more time and more fights to get the same relative number of quality opponents.

[famicommander]

We dont need a history lesson. When Usyk beat AJ, Usyk was not the favorite. Most people thought he was too small. Say 126 to Inoue and he says Im too small.

He literally says he's going to fight Akhmadaliev in September, then Nick Ball for the WBA title at 126 in December, then go back to 122 to fight Nakatani, and then pursue the undisputed 126 world championship. That's the plan he laid out before he even beat Cardenas.

[Smash]

its healthy for boxing that for quite a while any 1 of 3 could be p4p no1

[Jab jab boom]

[QUOTE=Corelone;n32467414]

We dont need a history lesson. When Usyk beat AJ, Usyk was not the favorite. Most people thought he was too small. Say 126 to Inoue and he says Im too small.

Apparently you do need a history lesson because there are several special fighters who weren’t underdogs. Find another reason if you want to downplay him.

[hugh grant]

Usyk can't do much more. You can theoretically have usyk above inoue. But of course most assume inoue can do more to overtake usyk? So what would that be, name your price! Does inoue need to be champ at 130?
There's comes a point when you must admit your in denial.

[DeeMoney]

I agree with what you're saying, and have no issue with it - however I'm not sure how it relates to the post your quoted. The fighters I mentioned for Usyk (Fury and AJ) were within last 3 years. Spence-Crawford was 2 years ago.

In general, P4P is a mythical ranking of who's better if everyone was same weight. That will always be an opinion, but to support it, lots of folks use the fighters' resume as a backup point.

Oh yeah, your post only mentions fights well within a recent time frame. Just speaking in general

[Corelone]

He literally says he's going to fight Akhmadaliev in September, then Nick Ball for the WBA title at 126 in December, then go back to 122 to fight Nakatani, and then pursue the undisputed 126 world championship. That's the plan he laid out before he even beat Cardenas.

He says? I heard that before