Why did people find Wilder more intimidating than AJ ?

[Willow The Wisp]

Oh stop.

No **** he never lost "in his prime years" when he spent them fighting guys like Szpilka and Duhaupas.

...and Fury, Ortiz twice.
It's all spin.
Does Josh have more very good opponents than Wilder and Fury? Yes.

But is it by a wide enough difference to offset the fact that Joshua frequently LOST to them while in his prime?

I don't think so.


Joshua beat nobody as good as Fury, ever. Wilder drew with him.
Joshua beat perhaps 2 guys as good as Ortiz (Parker and Whyte), who Wilder beat twice.

Klitschko (lol), Povetkin, Pulev...previous era leftovers.

Joshua lost 4 times in his prime years, each time to an underdog. Wilder lost once, to Fury in fight II, after an epic draw in their first fight.

Gavern, Molina, Breazeale and Helenius were common opponents. They were fishing from the same pond.

Joshua's edge in opposition quality is being vastly overinflated by his die hard fans!

Hell, Duhaupas KO over Helenius is Far better than Joshua's was.

[daggum]

...and Fury, Ortiz twice.
It's all spin.
Does Josh have more very good opponents than Wilder and Fury? Yes.

But is it by a wide enough difference to offset the fact that Joshua frequently LOST to them while in his prime?

I don't think so.


Joshua beat nobody as good as Fury, ever. Wilder drew with him.
Joshua beat perhaps 2 guys as good as Ortiz (Parker and Whyte), who Wilder beat twice.

Klitschko (lol), Povetkin, Pulev...previous era leftovers.

Joshua lost 4 times in his prime years, each time to an underdog. Wilder lost once, to Fury in fight II, after an epic draw in their first fight.

Gavern, Molina, Breazeale and Helenius were common opponents. They were fishing from the same pond.

Joshua's edge in opposition quality is being vastly overinflated by his die hard fans!

Hell, Duhaupas KO over Helenius is Far better than Joshua's was.

joshua is 8-4 against top 10 ring opponents. wilder is 3-5. what are you talking about? that is a wideeeee difference and that doesnt even show how much better joshuas quality is. wlad, whyte, parker, and ruiz are all way better than any wilder win. even povetkin is about as good as ortiz but i suppose you have to overrate ortiz in turn to overrate wilder. its a huge difference in quantity and quality yet you keep bringing up some fictional version of prime wilder that never happened. in his prime he fought nobody cept ortiz who was good but not great. when he stepped up he lost. he is not better. getting a gift draw against fury is what makes wilder better? you cant be serious. he clearly lost that fight and fury was crap at that time. you say lol to wlad yet wlads only loss in 10 years was to fury...the same guy wilder lost to in worse fashion but wlad is crap and wilder isnt? please

[Willow The Wisp]

joshua is 8-4 against top 10 ring opponents. wilder is 3-5. what are you talking about? that is a wideeeee difference and that doesnt even show how much better joshuas quality is. wlad, whyte, parker, and ruiz are all way better than any wilder win. even povetkin is about as good as ortiz but i suppose you have to overrate ortiz in turn to overrate wilder. its a huge difference in quantity and quality yet you keep bringing up some fictional version of prime wilder that never happened. in his prime he fought nobody cept ortiz who was good but not great. when he stepped up he lost. he is not better. getting a gift draw against fury is what makes wilder better? you cant be serious. he clearly lost that fight and fury was crap at that time. you say lol to wlad yet wlads only loss in 10 years was to fury...the same guy wilder lost to in worse fashion but wlad is crap and wilder isnt? please

Stepped up, is it? Wilder was 38 years, 2 months old, with a whopping 46 fights, 13 of them world title fights under his belt, when he didn't pull the trigger against running Joe Parker in their forgettable 2023 bore fest. Joshua won't be that old until 2028! And he's Never going to engage in that many pro fights OR world title fights. Ever. Just imagine how frequently he'll be getting slept by then!! Yikes.


Remenber also:
Whyte and Parker were immature when Joshua got them; and both of them would later surpass Joshua for a time, as the three of them proceeded through further development, ups & downs.
Beyond those two, not too-too much else, really.


Say what you will about Ortiz; but even after Wilder twice crushed him, he retained enough to blow away the "Champion" who made Joshua a Title Belt Holder.

It's a good time to confess that this is all just having a little fun with you.
Wilder and Joshua, and toss in Fury too, were all great; and each flawed. That's humanity in microcosm.

....but I always picked Wilder, having seen them each live on multiple occasions, if the two had met between 2015 and 2020 when it would've really mattered. It's about awesome power and questionable chin and what generally happens when those things come together. Joshua good enough to sweep the early rounds, starts to settle in, getting cozy, and goodnight.

[elfag]

Wilder at his best fought with unchecked aggression and no fear. He just went out there and threw bombs. He didn't worry if he was making himself look like he had no idea how to box, he didn't care if he left himself open for counter shots, he didn't care if he missed wildly for 8 rounds in a row. He fought with the complete confidence that he was going to land eventually and put you out, and he fought as if he knew his chin and his conditioning would see him through any adversity.

He simply took too many clean shots in the two Ortiz fights and the three Fury fights. Whether psychologically or physically, he took too much damage and that made him unable or unwilling to fight with the same swagger anymore. He's afraid of what's coming back which makes him afraid to launch his windmill bombs, and without his unchecked aggression he's a joke of a fighter just standing there waiting to get hit.

Joshua was always a more cautious, more technical, more cerebral fighter who was protecting obvious vulnerabilities. Ultimately he beat better competition than Wilder ever did, but he never had that aura of absolute destructive confidence that Wilder did before being humbled.

agree with all this and people always trash him say hes unskilled ect but look how far it got him and that aggression he had put a lot of pressure on opponents, you know he was going to throw those haymakers at you and that kept guys cautious while he threw more haymakers increasing his chances that he lands. they probably felt some connect and felt the power was real, no one wanted to really rush him which turns out Fury realized you should have been doing all the time because he didnt have short compact power like a foreman or beterbiev, he needed room for his right hand and you could smother his power but thats a big ask to rush a guy throwing bombs at you which is why nobody tried it until fury.

[daggum]

Stepped up, is it? Wilder was 38 years, 2 months old, with a whopping 46 fights, 13 of them world title fights under his belt, when he didn't pull the trigger against running Joe Parker in their forgettable 2023 bore fest. Joshua won't be that old until 2028! And he's Never going to engage in that many pro fights OR world title fights. Ever. Just imagine how frequently he'll be getting slept by then!! Yikes.


Remenber also:
Whyte and Parker were immature when Joshua got them; and both of them would later surpass Joshua for a time, as the three of them proceeded through further development, ups & downs.
Beyond those two, not too-too much else, really.


Say what you will about Ortiz; but even after Wilder twice crushed him, he retained enough to blow away the "Champion" who made Joshua a Title Belt Holder.

It's a good time to confess that this is all just having a little fun with you.
Wilder and Joshua, and toss in Fury too, were all great; and each flawed. That's humanity in microcosm.

....but I always picked Wilder, having seen them each live on multiple occasions, if the two had met between 2015 and 2020 when it would've really mattered. It's about awesome power and questionable chin and what generally happens when those things come together. Joshua good enough to sweep the early rounds, starts to settle in, getting cozy, and goodnight.

they were not all great. false equivalency alert. not sure any of them were great actually but joshua and fury are about A level while wilder was about C level. not close.

are you talking about the charles martin fight? ortiz was knocked down 3 times and the fight easily could have been stopped in martins favor before ortiz came back to win. that is proof ortiz is good? how? it makes him look really bad that he almost lost to martin. joshua easily dismantled martin. joshuas 8th best win almost beat wilders best win so that should tell you how soft wilder was matched.

[QueensburyRules]

they were not all great. false equivalency alert. not sure any of them were great actually but joshua and fury are about A level while wilder was about C level. not close.

are you talking about the charles martin fight? ortiz was knocked down 3 times and the fight easily could have been stopped in martins favor before ortiz came back to win. that is proof ortiz is good? how? it makes him look really bad that he almost lost to martin. joshua easily dismantled martin. joshuas 8th best win almost beat wilders best win so that should tell you how soft wilder was matched.

- - Deyonce have his own statue in Tuscaloosa Alabama I'll have you know. That and he peanut farm.

[crimsonfalcon07]

Say what you will of AJ and Wilder, I have enjoyed watching them fight, and they both got started relatively late, AJ at age 18, and Wilder at 20. Both medaled at the Olympics, AJ gold with 5 years in the sport, Wilder bronze after 3 years in the sport, and each became world champion and defended their portion of the title picture. I seriously doubt anyone crapping on either guy has come anywhere near the accomplishments of either guy. I also seriously doubt anyone crapping on the power of either guy would be willing to take even one shot, with pads, from either one.

Wilder in particular I think did really well considering his mentality and unwillingness to learn new tricks, and his general lack of skill. Imagine if he'd had the work ethic and IQ of an Usyk or Beterbiev or Bivol and had continued to improve his skills, rather than relying on his one trick (and it was a heck of a trick). People talking about his resume act like nobody else ever fought lower tier opponents, and yet there are many champions who also fought lower tier opponents for most of their career and never managed the KO streak that Wilder did.

As an aside, Ryan Garcia feels to me like he's following the Wilder path, but without as much success in the title picture. Mentally weak, unable to improve his game, and reliant on one very good trick.

[ELPacman]

It was because of his reckless tendency and at times unpredictability to throw an awkward shot that would do devastating damage. He wasn't as textbook and proper as AJ was. With Wilder you couldn't afford to have a moment where your mind wandered. Opponents saw the style and saw the devastating knockouts and were more fearful.

[daggum]

Say what you will of AJ and Wilder, I have enjoyed watching them fight, and they both got started relatively late, AJ at age 18, and Wilder at 20. Both medaled at the Olympics, AJ gold with 5 years in the sport, Wilder bronze after 3 years in the sport, and each became world champion and defended their portion of the title picture. I seriously doubt anyone crapping on either guy has come anywhere near the accomplishments of either guy. I also seriously doubt anyone crapping on the power of either guy would be willing to take even one shot, with pads, from either one.

Wilder in particular I think did really well considering his mentality and unwillingness to learn new tricks, and his general lack of skill. Imagine if he'd had the work ethic and IQ of an Usyk or Beterbiev or Bivol and had continued to improve his skills, rather than relying on his one trick (and it was a heck of a trick). People talking about his resume act like nobody else ever fought lower tier opponents, and yet there are many champions who also fought lower tier opponents for most of their career and never managed the KO streak that Wilder did.

As an aside, Ryan Garcia feels to me like he's following the Wilder path, but without as much success in the title picture. Mentally weak, unable to improve his game, and reliant on one very good trick.

what champions are you referring to? i cant think of any respectable long reigning champs who only beat 2 top 10 ranked opponents their entire careers. i can think of a guy like artur grigorian. maybe wilder is as good as him? maybe even better? congr-ats?

[crimsonfalcon07]

what champions are you referring to? i cant think of any respectable long reigning champs who only beat 2 top 10 ranked opponents their entire careers. i can think of a guy like artur grigorian. maybe wilder is as good as him? maybe even better? congr-ats?

Go back and reread. You got it completely wrong and are consequently stuck in a textbook logical fallacy. Try again, and we'll talk when you're actually responding to what I said, not some manufactured straw man that doesn't even use the same terminology.