Who is better? Joe Joyce or Luis Ortiz

[MikeyMike100]

Kind of depends on how you define better.
Ortiz was more gifted
Joyce has better wins (but worse losses)
most of that due to the opportunities Jiyce got and the lack of opportunities Ortiz got

In a head to head fight I wouldve favored Ortiz as it seems that Joe Joyce doesnt know how to fight southpaws

[billeau2]

Kind of depends on how you define better.
Ortiz was more gifted
Joyce has better wins (but worse losses)
most of that due to the opportunities Jiyce got and the lack of opportunities Ortiz got

In a head to head fight I wouldve favored Ortiz as it seems that Joe Joyce doesnt know how to fight southpaws

If you watch a tape of both men, well lets back up... Lets look carefully at their competition first: If we accept Joyce fought Dubois before he jelled, and his subsequent losses, and the fact that ortiz was flawless until he fought Wilder, and if we look at the range of both men's opposition, at best we may be able to qualify Joyce's WINS as a little better than those of Ortiz. When we factor in losses, and the fact that neither guy was able to beat a Marquee heavyweight top 3 (at the time we had Wilder, Fury and Usyk on their heels), one can see that there is a similar quality to the general skill level of opposition.

So for example, if we take a fighter like jerry Quarry, who was a tough heavyweight, and we say "Jerry fought much stronger competition than Ortiz, or Joyce" most people would agree there was a distinction to be made here. On the other hand? fighters like Stiverne, Jennings, Wacht, Beezle, Zhang, etc... are of a similar level of quality.

NOW knowing the above, when we watch both me fight, we can really draw some conclusions. Ortiz does a lot of things in the ring and came into the ranks in his twilight. Joyce, did one basic thing: He used conditioning to overwhelm his opposition with arm punches. When he had to make any basic adjustments he was simply unable to do so. That is the logical conclusion that emerges...

[Sid-Knee]

lol you are so full of shiate. The man could not be more specific... Dmbss

If he gave a time between 2014-2018 and no fighters that supposedly ducked Ortiz, then it's quite clear to even simple people that he isn't being specific. Do you need help with the definition of the word? I need to see if that particular fighter stands up to scrutiny on whether they ducked or not. That's why times, dates and fighters matter to someone who isn't a village idiot like yourself. It's vague. Hence, no specific explanation. Moron.

[Sid-Knee]

You still aren't listening... My claim is not against any promoter in particular. The horses mouth? Someone who is a lawyer, privay to all aspects of the negotiations and whom you witnessed overseeing a contract? Your an idiot.

You name checked Eddie Hearn you f3cking spazz. This is what you wrote...

"So you assume like most super Eurofans that you know the finer points of negotiations. Falling for the crap that Eddie Hearn and his ilk manufacture. You haven't a clue about these negotiations... None of us do. What we see are the results of these negotiations... The process? It is media controlled, and used to manipulate fans who do not know better... casuals like you Gimp! .

It was years before Don King and later Satanic Bob were exposed to fans"

That is a direct quote. You clearly said Eddie manufactured it all, even though Ortiz' team have come out and admitted they got it wrong. They never said anything about small print or what not. They asked for 10 Mill when offered about 7. This is all public knowledge. You can't provide any evidence that Ortiz and his team had problems about any small print. You in fact, manufactured it in your head. Didn't you? Nothing i said was a lie. None of it. You're the liar here. You're the moron here. It has been made very clear. Regardless of how detached from reality you are.

*You're

I rest my case.

[Sid-Knee]

It doesn't matter. I do not have to do anything but be amused by the entertainment you provide gimp... And frankly, your really slipping into d umb d umb land.

It doesn't matter? Even though you're claiming he did? When you make accusations, you're supposed to justify them. Not get asked to support your waffling and deranged nonsense only to come out with, "It doesn't matter". Clearly it does as you're saying the opposite to reality. What you really mean is, you can't justify any of the fantasy you've been spewing on here and have been well and truly caught out by my questioning your f3cking nonsense and having to pull tricks whilst embarrassing yourself in the process.

You're not slipping. You've completely slipped from reality.

[billeau2]

So you're not retracting one of your reasons to why Joyce was "Exposed"? Then it clearly stands that you're irrational, delusional and a hypocrite. If that's a criteria for being exposed, that would also include Ortiz, Wilder, Frazier and the likes. It's not my fault you're this much of an idiot who spouts nonsense you can't justify or explain. That's an idiot problem.

Can you not also answer the question regarding your comment on minor adjustments? Tell me what what adjustments Frazier, Wilder, Foreman and Ortiz made? Is this question too problematic also? There's that clear problem with idiocy again. You do get yourself into some right pickles don't you. Maybe take your medication as it's clear you need the boost.

Wait, your delusion has allowed for you to believe it was me who didn't understand different styles causing problems even though it was clearly mentioned in the comment you replied to here? I've been the one telling you that different styles cause problems with different fighters. You're the one who thought otherwise. Maybe take a triple dose of medication as you're not making any sense in any way. You're all the way delusional right now. A straight clown.

Instead of senseless waffle that would give a psychiatrist a hard days work, why don't you get to directly answering the questions being asked instead of deflecting. Do you understand what a direct answer to a question is? If you need me to explain it, just ask. It's clear you need some kind of help.

Yawn... Yawn yawn

[billeau2]

If he gave a time between 2014-2018 and no fighters that supposedly ducked Ortiz, then it's quite clear to even simple people that he isn't being specific. Do you need help with the definition of the word? I need to see if that particular fighter stands up to scrutiny on whether they ducked or not. That's why times, dates and fighters matter to someone who isn't a village idiot like yourself. It's vague. Hence, no specific explanation. Moron.

You still don't understand why what you said was rtarded?

[billeau2]

You name checked Eddie Hearn you f3cking spazz. This is what you wrote...

"So you assume like most super Eurofans that you know the finer points of negotiations. Falling for the crap that Eddie Hearn and his ilk manufacture. You haven't a clue about these negotiations... None of us do. What we see are the results of these negotiations... The process? It is media controlled, and used to manipulate fans who do not know better... casuals like you Gimp! .

It was years before Don King and later Satanic Bob were exposed to fans"

That is a direct quote. You clearly said Eddie manufactured it all, even though Ortiz' team have come out and admitted they got it wrong. They never said anything about small print or what not. They asked for 10 Mill when offered about 7. This is all public knowledge. You can't provide any evidence that Ortiz and his team had problems about any small print. You in fact, manufactured it in your head. Didn't you? Nothing i said was a lie. None of it. You're the liar here. You're the moron here. It has been made very clear. Regardless of how detached from reality you are.

*You're

I rest my case.

Eddie hearn and his ilk! Moron indeed thank you for verification. Maybe you shouldn't take your once a month rant as it is not going well for you lol.

[billeau2]

It doesn't matter? Even though you're claiming he did? When you make accusations, you're supposed to justify them. Not get asked to support your waffling and deranged nonsense only to come out with, "It doesn't matter". Clearly it does as you're saying the opposite to reality. What you really mean is, you can't justify any of the fantasy you've been spewing on here and have been well and truly caught out by my questioning your f3cking nonsense and having to pull tricks whilst embarrassing yourself in the process.

You're not slipping. You've completely slipped from reality.

Gimp, you post like a 4 year old with autism... Not reading your rant sorry your not worth the read.

[Sid-Knee]

Yawn... Yawn yawn

Translation: You've got me **** to rights. I've been made to look ****** so i'll pull all the ad hominem attacks and what not.

Great one.