Is Turki Alalshikh getting a return from his investment in boxing?

[jqSide]

Why do you believe PPV numbers for Turki fights aren't being disclosed??

Hmm... I missed repeating this in my previous post. We're going in circles. They aren't disclosed, imho, simply because there's nothing to disclose. Only few bought the PPVs and most of them were watched for free. Simple as that. Let's say Fury vs Usyk sold 5K in the US, there's no point for whoever sells them in reporting such numbers. However, it's far better than concocting or manufacturing numbers that don't exist.

[LarryMerchant'sBottle]

This conversation is going nowhere when there's zero info on PPV numbers when it comes to non-PBC fights. You mentioned earlier that the reason for this is because, in GBP's case, for instance, they're hiding the figures so that fighters would be kept from asking for more money. That's fair but what about in Turki's cards? Such motive is non-existent. Fighters are offered flat fees and according to Bob Arum, who admiringly says Turki negotiates with fighters individually and there's no such thing as purse % splits. They're asked to name their price and settles with Turki's final offer. Never heard of any report of fighters demanding upside money.

You should be wondering why only PBC supporters come up with numbers, which are subject to verification. What's your theory? I have mentioned mine and simply concurred with others that such numbers are fake and exaggerated. If piracy is rampant, why is PBC still getting these huge numbers? And like others said, 100,000 PPV buys is massive compared to non-PBC fights which is basically zero.

I would just leave it at that.

If you're asking me for my opinion on why PPV numbers for Turki cards aren't released, my answer is that I believe Turki pays the people in charge to keep those numbers private. That's my belief. Is it believable? Maybe, maybe not.

You feel that the numbers being released for PBC fights are false and exaggerated. I can't argue that because I simply do not know, but I'll take their word for it. If PBC were gonna exaggerate numbers, why not claim much higher numbers?

Why do you believe PPV numbers for Turki fights aren't being disclosed??

For the record, I'm not disagreeing with anything you are saying, but was simply adding to dialogue of a subject that I find intriguing.

[jqSide]

No, his fights are definitely not free, although they are more affordable. Like you, I'm interested in knowing how many folks are buying his fights, not to gloat or to ridicule, but rather to follow the popularity of the sport.
Why the numbers aren't being revealed is a good question though.

This conversation is going nowhere when there's zero info on PPV numbers when it comes to non-PBC fights. You mentioned earlier that the reason for this is because, in GBP's case, for instance, they're hiding the figures so that fighters would be kept from asking for more money. That's fair but what about in Turki's cards? Such motive is non-existent. Fighters are offered flat fees and according to Bob Arum, who admiringly says Turki negotiates with fighters individually and there's no such thing as purse % splits. They're asked to name their price and settles with Turki's final offer. Never heard of any report of fighters demanding upside money.

You should be wondering why only PBC supporters come up with numbers, which are subject to verification. What's your theory? I have mentioned mine and simply concurred with others that such numbers are fake and exaggerated. If piracy is rampant, why is PBC still getting these huge numbers? And like others said, 100,000 PPV buys is massive compared to non-PBC fights which is basically zero.

I would just leave it at that.

[LarryMerchant'sBottle]

Turki is doing wonderful things in boxing, but that doesn't mean his fights are free. They're still being sold by authorized sellers in the US, I don't know who owns the rights to sell them and rights to go after pirates. And just as PBC fans are happy to see good PPV outcome, there are others who want to know what the PPV numbers are on Turki's cards. Like you said "there are still a good number of people" that buys PPVs because streams are choppy, etc. So again, where are the numbers of those who are buying?

No, his fights are definitely not free, although they are more affordable. Like you, I'm interested in knowing how many folks are buying his fights, not to gloat or to ridicule, but rather to follow the popularity of the sport.

Why the numbers aren't being revealed is a good question though.

[jqSide]

Turki is doing wonderful things in boxing, but that doesn't mean his fights are free. They're still being sold by authorized sellers in the US, I don't know who owns the rights to sell them and rights to go after pirates. And just as PBC fans are happy to see good PPV outcome, there are others who want to know what the PPV numbers are on Turki's cards. Like you said "there are still a good number of people" that buys PPVs because streams are choppy, etc. So again, where are the numbers of those who are buying?

[LarryMerchant'sBottle]

True, but we need real, authenticated numbers so we don't have to speculate.

Not that I disagree with you, but here's what I believe. PPV numbers are important for knowing how much money fighters and promoters will be making. For fans, it is a reason to claim that our favorite fighter is the face of boxing or the most popular fighter, which is something that Ginger and Tank fans love bragging about.

With Turki at the helm and putting on these stacked cards or loser agains loser, winner against winner tournaments, the need for an A side or B side is irrelevant because the focus is on boxing again and not on PPV sales. In a fight card that has Ryan, Haney, Teo and Boots in it, the focus is on who the better man is, not who the bigger draw is.

Folks will be buying the card because of the whole package or who will be the king of the hill. The chatter will be about how fighter X is the baddest of 147 and not about how fighter X had the most fans paying for the fight.

I honestly didn't think Turki was paying a lot more than what promoters are currently paying, but if Haney is willing to drop his lawsuit and Ryan is willing to go through VADA for PED testing, I have to believe that Turki must be paying a lot more than I thought. I don't think Turki nor any of the folks on the know will be posting PPV numbers because it won't be important anymore. The only thing that will matter are the actual fights themselves...

[jqSide]

You are correct about all fights being pirated, it's inevitable, but there is still a good number of folks who buy fights because they want to watch a perfect stream and not a choppy stream or a stream that drops every few rounds. Not a huge number like there were when Floyd and Manny were fighting obviously, but a decent number.

True, but we need real, authenticated numbers so we don't have to speculate.

[jqSide]

No, it isn't illegal, but when you brag about how much you're making to a big audience(social media nowadays), it can and has triggered audits in the past. Audits can be rather expensive and scary, but as long as you keep proper records, things should be fine.

I guess the point I was trying to make is that exaggerating or lying about PPV sales can lead to some unnecessary legal expenses. A good example is the Ryan, Devin, GBP circus. Oscar had to publicly announce that the fight did terrible numbers, at least in comparison to what they all had projected and to what the fighters were expecting.

Shoot, one of the reasons for the Haney's suing GBP was for transparency of all the financial records, including the PPV numbers, because they don't believe that GBP paid them all they were due.

I'm all for people getting summoned by the IRS for lying about figures. Let them sue such people. Again, I never saw any reported figures in the Garcia/Haney PPV fight. I would assume the reason is because only few bought them, the rest was pirated, which I could accept because piracy is real, instead of lying and reporting fantastic figures only the gullible would believe. Question is why would any normal person would assume certain fights are pirated and not others? Thieves are thieves no matter what.

[LarryMerchant'sBottle]

Problem with that is no one takes any responsibility for the reported numbers. For example, one report says fighter A made $2 million, while another report says he made $25 million. Huge discrepancy. These are actual reports in Tank's fight with Martin. Then there are reports that say it sold 150K PPV, while another one says 300K to 350K. Which one would you believe? And why would believe one and not the other? And, as others mentioned, why was there no reported number in the Haney vs Garcia fight?

As a side note, I don't know if there are laws in the US where it's illegal to lie about your income for negotiations purposes like negotiating a job salary. I don't even think it's illegal.

No, it isn't illegal, but when you brag about how much you're making to a big audience(social media nowadays), it can and has triggered audits in the past. Audits can be rather expensive and scary, but as long as you keep proper records, things should be fine.

I guess the point I was trying to make is that exaggerating or lying about PPV sales can lead to some unnecessary legal expenses. A good example is the Ryan, Devin, GBP circus. Oscar had to publicly announce that the fight did terrible numbers, at least in comparison to what they all had projected and to what the fighters were expecting.

Shoot, one of the reasons for the Haney's suing GBP was for transparency of all the financial records, including the PPV numbers, because they don't believe that GBP paid them all they were due.

[jqSide]

I don't know how it works in other countries, but in The States, those figures can determine the amount of money a boxer will make. The amount of money a fighter in The State makes has to be reported to the IRS. You can't be a celebrity boxer and claim you're making $30 million a fight and not expect to not have to claim that when you file your taxes. Celebrities in the past have gotten audited and charged for failure to claim the money they're making. It's called tax evasion...

It definitely isn't wise to release those numbers if you don't want the IRS knowing how much you are making...

Problem with that is no one takes any responsibility for the reported numbers. For example, one report says fighter A made $2 million, while another report says he made $25 million. Huge discrepancy. These are actual reports in Tank's fight with Martin. Then there are reports that say it sold 150K PPV, while another one says 300K to 350K. Which one would you believe? And why would believe one and not the other? And, as others mentioned, why was there no reported number in the Haney vs Garcia fight?

As a side note, I don't know if there are laws in the US where it's illegal to lie about your income for negotiations purposes like negotiating a job salary. I don't even think it's illegal.