Robeisy Ramirez Reportedly Has An Orbital Fracture

[CubanGuyNYC]

I don't want to label him a dirty fighter, but I too saw a few elbows that looked intentional in my opinion. I just don't believe that the orbital problem was due to an elbow. Some folks have claimed that the elbow that caused the orbital problem happened in round 5 at around the 2:15 minute mark. After reviewing that minute mark it does appear that an elbow could have landed, but if it lands, it lands on the right side of the head around the ear, not in the right eye area....

I don’t know about all that; but as I mention in the post above, Espinoza threw at least one elbow in the previous meeting. I do believe now that he does this knowingly.

[garfios]

I don't want to label him a dirty fighter, but I too saw a few elbows that looked intentional in my opinion. I just don't believe that the orbital problem was due to an elbow. Some folks have claimed that the elbow that caused the orbital problem happened in round 5 at around the 2:15 minute mark. After reviewing that minute mark it does appear that an elbow could have landed, but if it lands, it lands on the right side of the head around the ear, not in the right eye area....

You're missing the right elbow, he threw the left elbow, which was not even a punch, and hit him with the right elbow on the inside, that one did the damage, and he complained to the referee, and yes your theory is sound about the left elbow and side of the head, now change the left with the right and see where it landed.

[MulaKO]

You’re very welcome, bro. I was unable to see the fight in real time on Saturday and was only able to catch some highlights on YouTube, where no mention was made of elbows. I just watched a clip on Facebook, where an elbow very clearly hits Ramirez on the right eye. And, frankly, it looks quite intentional, like it wasn’t even on the follow-through. In fact, the ref warns Espinoza about hitting with the elbow — something I was unaware of till now.

I will add this: I rewatched the first meeting between these two a couple of days before the rematch. I noticed something I didn’t recall seeing before: Espinoza threw at least one elbow on the follow-through. This is an old (dirty) tactic, one which many fighters have employed, including the great Roberto Duran. Now, I’m of the opinion that a fight is a fight, and bending the rules is just the way it is sometimes; but when a fighter’s orbital bone is broken from a dirty tactic and is forced to “quit”, as it appears in this case that it was, that changes things. In a moment of emotional disgust, I jumped the gun in my criticism of Robeisy immediately following the match. I retract that now. I know Ramirez isn’t reading this, but I apologize to him.

Takes a big man to admit his mistakes
So kudos to you brother

[Joseph]

I jumped the gun in my criticism of Robeisy immediately following the match. I retract that now. I know Ramirez isn’t reading this, but I apologize to him.

You're a cool cat.

I did the same. I'm usually not so knee-jerk, but that particular fight was one I had been looking forward to, and just as it was heating up...

That's boxing.

[crimsonfalcon07]

He threw the left elbow and hit him with the right one, there wasn't accident. He was too close for a left hook so he used his elbows, you can see the arm turning and became the elbow, left and right the latter been the one that did the damage. Salido fouled Loma like it was no tomorrow, the weight issue, was Loma's decision, I didn't commented on that. He was dirty as fvk. The furor is because it was intentional, and we were expecting a clean hard fought fight, it was anticlimactic the way it ended. He was frustrated because he couldn't get to him, the last punch was a grazing blow. Go to yt and do the search, I thought it was the left elbow, but no, it was the right, two elbows thrown on the same sequence. Pinning a glove? So I said fvk you and you shoot me with a *******, common man, the guy threw elbows with intentions out frustration, the first fight he didn't used them because he was getting his shots in, not this time. He fought dirty plain and simple, and now we have a guy with a fractured orbital bone.

I did do a search in both YouTube and Google. Care to link the ones you're talking about? The ones that looked the most intentional that were trending on X look like an attempt at a hook that got caught on the forearm, and there was only one thing that was even remotely elbow like in the 4th round, and it was a missed punch. The ESPN team during the broadcast went back and searched too, and the one he claimed hit him in the 4th that he said did the damage was a missed right cross in the 5th, and Ramirez slammed his own face into the forearm himself on that. Then he gets caught by an uppercut. There was literally nothing else either round. That's another thing that bugs me about this narrative. He claims there were elbows in the 4th and nobody has been able to find even one. Punches, yes. Elbows, no. And the one in the fifth that makes contact is pretty clearly a missed punch and Ramirez himself moved into it.

https://x.com/N3SSo5/status/1865638490886516760

Go back and watch Ramirez exclusively on those and tell me he's not making contact with the arms on the inside and holding them. If your hand gets pinned to your waist when you're trying to throw a hook, it will turn into an elbow strike. People can make things look very cut and dry by slowing things down on social media and cutting out the context. Personally, I'm not convinced yet, especially considering how few attempts there were, and in the first clip, you can tell nothing was close to his eye at all. If he got caught, it was on the chin. In the second, the only thing that hits him in the eye was the forearm, and an uppercut.

Here's the slow mo of the one in the 5th after Espinoza misses the right... You can clearly see Robeisy moving his head forward into the forearm, and the left elbow makes no contact.

https://******************/noB6r2cuX...go8G0Rzzqg914x

That's standard technique to escape a pin, by the way. You can't just push off at the wrist because you're in a mechanically weak position relative to your opponent, who is using weight to hold your arm. So you flare your elbow to create a lever and rotate your body. Try it out with someone yourself. Have them put their weight on your arm and pin it to your body and see what works best to remove the pin. And it's not really considered dirty boxing because first, it's in response to a foul, and second, most of the time you wouldn't actually hit them in the head because it would be too low. Of course, if your opponent is ducking down low and is substantially shorter than you, then their head might naturally end up in line with the elbow. But I personally have yet to see any videos in which that might have happened.

Please feel free to share the videos you found that you think are cut and dry. Every one that I've seen has a legitimate alternate explanation that has a lot to do with what Ramirez was doing himself. If you've got another one, I will be happy to look.

-edit- also going to remind everyone that tall lanky fighters anatomically always elbow when punching on the inside. See Fundora v Tszyu for reference...

[CubanGuyNYC]

Takes a big man to admit his mistakes
So kudos to you brother

Thank you, brother.

[CubanGuyNYC]

You're a cool cat.

I did the same. I'm usually not so knee-jerk, but that particular fight was one I had been looking forward to, and just as it was heating up...

That's boxing.

Thanks, man. As you might guess, I was emotionally invested in that fight. My boy was keeping me posted, round-by-round. Seemed like it was turning into something worthy of our expectations…then the unexpected ending. My buddy sent me a video clip of Ramirez getting punched in the eye and waving off, but no mention was made of any elbows. Anyway, now I not only feel bad about my initial reaction but also about a potentially great fight being denied everyone — particularly Robeisy.

[Groin Grabber]

Have they said how many elbows altogether Espinoza landed? I know like in the first 2 rounds the ref told him about his elbows but he didn't listen I guess

[LarryMerchant'sBottle]

I did do a search in both YouTube and Google. Care to link the ones you're talking about? The ones that looked the most intentional that were trending on X look like an attempt at a hook that got caught on the forearm, and there was only one thing that was even remotely elbow like in the 4th round, and it was a missed punch. The ESPN team during the broadcast went back and searched too, and the one he claimed hit him in the 4th that he said did the damage was a missed right cross in the 5th, and Ramirez slammed his own face into the forearm himself on that. Then he gets caught by an uppercut. There was literally nothing else either round. That's another thing that bugs me about this narrative. He claims there were elbows in the 4th and nobody has been able to find even one. Punches, yes. Elbows, no. And the one in the fifth that makes contact is pretty clearly a missed punch and Ramirez himself moved into it.

https://x.com/N3SSo5/status/1865638490886516760

Go back and watch Ramirez exclusively on those and tell me he's not making contact with the arms on the inside and holding them. If your hand gets pinned to your waist when you're trying to throw a hook, it will turn into an elbow strike. People can make things look very cut and dry by slowing things down on social media and cutting out the context. Personally, I'm not convinced yet, especially considering how few attempts there were, and in the first clip, you can tell nothing was close to his eye at all. If he got caught, it was on the chin. In the second, the only thing that hits him in the eye was the forearm, and an uppercut.

Here's the slow mo of the one in the 5th after Espinoza misses the right... You can clearly see Robeisy moving his head forward into the forearm, and the left elbow makes no contact.

https://******************/noB6r2cuX...go8G0Rzzqg914x

That's standard technique to escape a pin, by the way. You can't just push off at the wrist because you're in a mechanically weak position relative to your opponent, who is using weight to hold your arm. So you flare your elbow to create a lever and rotate your body. Try it out with someone yourself. Have them put their weight on your arm and pin it to your body and see what works best to remove the pin. And it's not really considered dirty boxing because first, it's in response to a foul, and second, most of the time you wouldn't actually hit them in the head because it would be too low. Of course, if your opponent is ducking down low and is substantially shorter than you, then their head might naturally end up in line with the elbow. But I personally have yet to see any videos in which that might have happened.

Please feel free to share the videos you found that you think are cut and dry. Every one that I've seen has a legitimate alternate explanation that has a lot to do with what Ramirez was doing himself. If you've got another one, I will be happy to look.

-edit- also going to remind everyone that tall lanky fighters anatomically always elbow when punching on the inside. See Fundora v Tszyu for reference...

Yeah, I believe that last link is the one I was talking about, but from a different angle. The left left elbow doesn't connect at all and the right elbow seems to connect lightly after the forearm slides across, but it appears as if Ramirez lunges a bit forward head first which causes the forearm to connect. That right elbow shown on that last link couldn't have caused an orbital fracture, in my opinion.

[CubanGuyNYC]

Have they said how many elbows altogether Espinoza landed? I know like in the first 2 rounds the ref told him about his elbows but he didn't listen I guess

Just watched the rematch I’m its entirety. I only saw two elbows, both in the first round, and the ref issued a warning. The commentators spoke extensively about Espinoza’s elbows throughout the fight, but nothing was obvious in real time. Supposedly Ramirez took the telling elbow shot in the fifth; but no one saw it, including myself. Easy to say now, but Salas should’ve told the ref his charge had double-vision due to an elbow. No way that right hand to the eye caused the injury by itself. Really too bad; it was looking like an interesting fight — totally different from the first encounter.