Better resume wilder or Joyce

[IronDanHamza]

Well Parker and Dubois are 2 and 3 right now so that should tell us something. and if you actually break down how stiverne got ranked that high it’s nonsensical. His best win was over Arreola who was ranked 9 and that gets stiverene to 2? On what planet? He got the "he has a belt" bump which is how you are overrating him as well.. Meanwhile Parker and Dubois both have 2 top 5 wins to get where they are now. Essentially what you are saying is beating Arreola is better than beating joshua or Zhang. Not reasonable

Look at the two “I pick and chose when rankings matter” clowns arguing over that exact thing

How comical.

[daggum]

Joyce got lucky because Parker and Dubois peeked late... Aside from that, the best fighter of the bunch was Ortiz and that counts for a lot. He was undefeated before facing Wilder with a very high KO Percentage.

The real answer to this is, If one only looks at these four fighters Joyce gets an edge, but on the strength of who both me lost to, and fought they have equal resumes. Even Dubois lost to a champion (Usyk) as Ortiz did.

You are a spin doctor and not a particularly good one. Your whole point rests upon Dubois beating Joshua... I am not even bringing up Stiverne here. According to people like you who take relative ratings and try to make them absolute, Faircommander has shown that Stiverne had gravitas in these rankings... Again, because Wilder absolutely dominated him the second fight, you would hold that against him, assuming that makes Stiverne less capable. Ful!!!

How is ortiz better than Parker or Dubois? Do you really wanna compare their resumes? He was undefeated because he fought weak competition. He was also about 40 years old while Joyce's wins were over guys in their primes who went on to have great careers. Ortiz and Stiverne did nothing after the Wilder fights. You think beating Chris Arreola is better than besting Anthony joshua. That is what you are

I already broke down how the rankings of Dubois and Parker are far more credible than stivernes ranking. Also stiverne wasn't even ranked in the 2nd fight
oh yeah and Joyce easily knocked stivernr out in stivrrnes next fight. In fact Joyce best Jennings as well who is ortizs best win and I didn't even mention him cause he has such better wins

[IronDanHamza]

Funny how you make this point when it suits you, but you are always using rankings to substantiate quality when making a case for heavyweights you are deluded enough to think fought special competition. Ortiz on the strength of his competition, Ko percentage and record is probably closer to Dubois than it looks like... And BTW didn't Ortiz beat a champ? (Charles Martin), while Dubois is yet to do so? This is the usual kind of logic you use lol.

The guys almost 20 years deep and still doesn’t get it

He’s spent the last 20 years literally crying about Carlos Baldomir who was ranked #1 at the time whilst at the same time making comical statements like “Fulton and Spence have the same level resume based on facts (rankings)” and praising wins like Rico fucking Ramos because he was ranked #3

The lack of self awareness is bordering on sad at this point. Still makes these humiliating threads none stop

[daggum]

Funny how you make this point when it suits you, but you are always using rankings to substantiate quality when making a case for heavyweights you are deluded enough to think fought special competition. Ortiz on the strength of his competition, Ko percentage and record is probably closer to Dubois than it looks like... And BTW didn't Ortiz beat a champ? (Charles Martin), while Dubois is yet to do so? This is the usual kind of logic you use lol.

I don't care about belt holders. I never use that argument that's a straw man. In fact I just articulated how stiverne was over ranked because he had a belt. And Dubois just beat joshua so not sure what you mean by saying he's never beat a champ.

Dubois has a better resume than ortiz. It's not close. Ortizs' best win is Jennings. A guy Joyce beat that I didn't even mention for him. Hrgovic is at least aa good as Jennings and then Joshua...not close

[Pac=Duran]

Not even a question really. Who did Beyonce ever beat?

[dannnnn]

Wilder took a belt off a reigning world titlist. End of discussion.

That would mean something if there was one world title per division and boxing was a meritocracy where you had to climb the rankings in earnest with meaningful wins to get your shot. Winning a title in this era is often largely circumstantial. Right place, right time, right promoter.

The only thing that actually matters is who you beat and when you beat them. Titles are just baubles attached to certain fights and not others and carry very little intrinsic value of their own in this day and age.

Stiverne isn't even a very good win. It's okay, on the level of Charles Martin or Dominic Breazeale, but it's not a stand-out name to brag about. Joyce has even beaten Stiverne(!) as well as Bryant Jennings and Carlos Takam who would both rank as two of Wilder's better wins. The only truly good win Wilder has is Ortiz. The ten WBC title defences are bogus, they really don't mean much. If Joyce had been lucky enough to catch Stiverne while he held the WBC title, he would have racked up a bunch of defenses too, as would many others in the same position.

[billeau2]

How is ortiz better than Parker or Dubois? Do you really wanna compare their resumes? He was undefeated because he fought weak competition. He was also about 40 years old while Joyce's wins were over guys in their primes who went on to have great careers. Ortiz and Stiverne did nothing after the Wilder fights. You think beating Chris Arreola is better than besting Anthony joshua. That is what you are

I already broke down how the rankings of Dubois and Parker are far more credible than stivernes ranking. Also stiverne wasn't even ranked in the 2nd fight
oh yeah and Joyce easily knocked stivernr out in stivrrnes next fight. In fact Joyce best Jennings as well who is ortizs best win and I didn't even mention him cause he has such better wins

Not necessarily better... More like in a similar bracket. And no I do not want to compare their resumes because there is no overriding reason to do so, given they all fought equal competition. Ortiz fought the same quality of competition as Joyce and Parker. Chris Arreola actually looked great in that fight, for what it is worth... Your understanding of rankings was not a break down, it is a construction totally dependent on Anthony Joshua!

[billeau2]

The guys almost 20 years deep and still doesn’t get it

He’s spent the last 20 years literally crying about Carlos Baldomir who was ranked #1 at the time whilst at the same time making comical statements like “Fulton and Spence have the same level resume based on facts (rankings)” and praising wins like Rico fucking Ramos because he was ranked #3

The lack of self awareness is bordering on sad at this point. Still makes these humiliating threads none stop

Daggum has never understood that rankings are not the same as facts. He will deliberately confuse the two and try to make people believe that relative rankings are some measure of absolute ability.

[billeau2]

I don't care about belt holders. I never use that argument that's a straw man. In fact I just articulated how stiverne was over ranked because he had a belt. And Dubois just beat joshua so not sure what you mean by saying he's never beat a champ.

Dubois has a better resume than ortiz. It's not close. Ortizs' best win is Jennings. A guy Joyce beat that I didn't even mention for him. Hrgovic is at least aa good as Jennings and then Joshua...not close

It is a strawman! And yes when it suited your purpose you claimed not to use rank... and then? the very next post to me you claimed "But Stiverne was not even ranked yet" and above you claim Stiverne was "over ranked." You just contradicted yourself twice... Needless to say 95% of the rest of the garbage you post is all about rankings, and the relative performance of fighters to Anthony Joshua.

Dubois' resume is a straw man... has he beat a top 3 opponent? Like Wilder he lost to one... Has Joshua beat a top 3 opponent? Take your time... All these guys Joyce, Parker, Duboise, are in the same quagmire as Ortiz was, and Wilder. Resumes don't matter.

[IronDanHamza]

Daggum has never understood that rankings are not the same as facts. He will deliberately confuse the two and try to make people believe that relative rankings are some measure of absolute ability.

The other guy is a child who just got into boxing yesterday so I give him the benefit of the doubt when he says things like beating Ray Beltran is an all time great win because he was ranked #1 but then dismisses other peoples top 5 wins as “bums”.

Daggum on the other hand there’s no excuse for him, he has got to be in his late 30’s atleast now, he’s been on this forum for nearly 20 years for fuck sake And he’s just as dumb now as he was back then.