Comments Thread For: Paulie Malignaggi's Picks: Shakur Stevenson showed he's best at 135 pounds and that it's time for rivals to step up

[SUBZER0ED]

Paulie was just as boring as Snorekur,he was only entertaining when he was getting beat up .

It's not a coincidence that one pillow-fisted boxer is touting another as the best choice to "shut out Davis" If Shakur has the cojones to stand in front of Tank and try that, I'll be amazed, and he'll get KTFO.

[Poopdick]

Martin was a full fledged contender, and the best one at PBC to boot. And his previous fight was a win over that same guy Shakur fought... He's got 50% more fights than Artem also. Holy double standards, Batman...

and most ppl thought artem won. Martin was 6-1 betting underdog. that why they sold 100k ppvs. nobody wants mismatched. stop

[Poopdick]

And Artem was an even bigger underdog. Wtf is your point?

that these guys fight huge underdogs lol. you said the same thing other guy said. are you two 'team pbc' or what I a boxing fan who wants top fights and always put my 2 cents in when I see new ignorant fans that either don't know better or are fans of companies only

[Phase III]

This post provokes a lot of thoughts.

It is kind of crazy but 135 has become sort of a pass through division as everybody grows out of it. I guess people are getting bigger lol.

With respect to how you ran the numbers, boxing has to change because right now it is just pricing people out.

I actually believe it would be better not to have taken that offer. However I don't know if these guys are ready to give some fights away get casuals interested, promote their own fights, hook up a situation like the Paul brothers have... Do real work to get people involved through social media instead of the archaic promoter model.

If they invested that way they could start to make money. The old model is just too top heavy financially. It depends on people spending a lot of money, being willing to build interest on their own dime. It ain't going to happen.

For example, take monster trucks. This form of entertainment, I learned about through my young son when he was very young, required kids to learn about the different characters, go to the concerts/shows, etc. but they did a brilliant job. Everything was gearedso that a middle-class family could go out for the evening and come home fed, a few beers had, and even a few souvenirs bought. By making it affordable they were investing in new fans coming along.

Promoters are kind of like housing development contractors. you can have a whole gigantic development, all the money's flowing everywhere and you often make your profit on the last house sold. It's that crazy.

One of the reasons I liked your post is how you understand this same concept as it applies to boxing promoters. it's a bad model... That's the bottom line. It is unsustainable. They will not be able to pay fighters anything near what they want if this continues.

promoters like housing contractors, have to cut corners, and make theirs at the consumers expense.

My numbers could be off but certainly by not more than $500K to $1M, provided the PPV was higher than $49.95 which would be a bust.

Crawford will soon be on PPV. The nutty Promoter fixed the price at $79.95. This PPV is a complete loss at that price. I am 100% certain the Promoter guarantee to Crawford was way out of line and realizing this, the fight is at $79.95 due to sheer ******ity.

Crawford’s F and E value:
F5, E2

At $79,95 with an unknown opponent, this fight is a complete bust and bleeds red ink for the promoter.
The PPV buys will not exceed 125K buys because Crawford will do absolutely nothing to help sell the fight.

Give Crawford charisma like Camacho for example and he alone would be good for 300-350K PPV buys. Now all he needs is a dance partner with F+E value, of which the pickings are slim, Canelo being the exception, although his F+E value has been going south.

Note:Translated, Canelo asking for $200M to fight Benevidez means he wants no part of fighting him. Canelo knows his F+E value has been dropping which is why he looking at fighting Berlanga (F2.5, E2.5), Chris Eubank Jr (F3, E3)

[crimsonfalcon07]

and most ppl thought artem won. Martin was 6-1 betting underdog. that why they sold 100k ppvs. nobody wants mismatched. stop

Your lack of logic and double standards here are absolutely wild.

Both Martin and his leftovers were massive underdogs.

Davis v Martin odds -700/+500.

Shakur v Harutunyan odds -3500/+1300.

Seriously, just shut up already.

[wrecksracer]

The problem with your argument was that Loma had no way of knowing that Floyd and Tank would part ways at the time. They never mentioned him until Tank went in his own! Shakur was in the same stable as him, and he chose Kambo! Navarrette was in the same stable, and he chose Berinchyk! At the present time, Loma still has no guarantee to fight Tank!

Fighting Kambo first still makes sense, because it would make Loma vs Stevenson a unification. It's a bigger fight if they both have belts. Shouldn't they want to maximize their profit? Shouldn't they position themselves to make the most money? Navarette....he should take his first fight at 135 against the highest risk lowest reward? Or does it make sense to go for the vacant title to make Stevenson a unification? As soon as those belts became vacant, Top Rank started positioning their guys. Anyway....yes, these guys could have fought Shakur for less money. Is that what you would have done? You would take hundreds of thousands of dollars less fighting Shakur without a belt? Possibly millions less, in Loma's case. Honestly, Shakur should have bet on himself by taking the short money against Haney. He could have become undisputed, and everybody at 135 would have to come to him.

[billeau2]

The WBC went down the list to find someone to fight Shakur for the title! Pitbull, Zepeda, and Frank Martin all swerved Shakur! Only Martin got a title shot, so no excuses! Loma and Navarrette are Top Rank fighters, and chose not to fight Shakur! If you can’t see something wrong going on, then I have to assume you haven’t been a boxing fan for very long?

Maybe your reading comp is on a par with my time spent as a boxing fan? Let me try to break it down... Hopefully the few minutes it takes to do so go towards the length of my experience as a boxing fan?

1. You made a statement saying that Shakur is being avoided... This is a fair statement. It stands to be a good possibility.

2. You then made a giant leap of logic assuming that The reason Shakur was/is avoided is because he is such a good fighter. Presumably these other fighters are afraid to fight Shakur... as implied by your logic.

There are any number of other possible reasons Shakur was avoided. Why assume other fighters are scared of him? For example,

1. one poster described a better fight schedule for Loma, including a belt for the trouble.

2. There might be a financial reason, another fighter being a better draw... more money

3. Maybe the WBC is not the final word... This happens when people try to fight/grab for titles, perhaps no one cares about when a mandatory comes up... For example, Lewis was supposed to fight John Ruiz years ago for a mandatory, Ruiz ****** a s s... So Lewis said "Fck the mando, I am fighting who the FANS want me to fight... Michael Grant," who was viewed as a legit threat to Lewis at the time and was who the fans wanted Lewis to fight.

You give Shakur too much credit if you think he is such a powerhouse that fighters like Cruz, are scared of him...

[billeau2]

My numbers could be off but certainly by not more than $500K to $1M, provided the PPV was higher than $49.95 which would be a bust.

Crawford will soon be on PPV. The nutty Promoter fixed the price at $79.95. This PPV is a complete loss at that price. I am 100% certain the Promoter guarantee to Crawford was way out of line and realizing this, the fight is at $79.95 due to sheer ******ity.

Crawford’s F and E value:
F5, E2

At $79,95 with an unknown opponent, this fight is a complete bust and bleeds red ink for the promoter.
The PPV buys will not exceed 125K buys because Crawford will do absolutely nothing to help sell the fight.

Give Crawford charisma like Camacho for example and he alone would be good for 300-350K PPV buys. Now all he needs is a dance partner with F+E value, of which the pickings are slim, Canelo being the exception, although his F+E value has been going south.

Note:Translated, Canelo asking for $200M to fight Benevidez means he wants no part of fighting him. Canelo knows his F+E value has been dropping which is why he looking at fighting Berlanga (F2.5, E2.5), Chris Eubank Jr (F3, E3)

Makes a lot of sense... Ballpark figures work here. Bottom line, Crawford does not command 80 bucks. Camacho is a great example, the guy, like Benitez and a lot of Puerto/Nueva york Ricans had a huge following in Puerto Rico and New York... And even then, the fights were affordable, certainly not almost 100 bucks.

All I can figure is these promoters are trying to suck the well dry... Crawford has a following in Omaha, a city of like 500K or so? Like you state the demographics are all off... Unless you get Crawford out and about, perhaps with a few free fights, whatever... Your banking on a few people paying a premium price...Not a good marketing strategy. Airlines... perfect example, they are now trying to get rid of all these special customers and their quirks... They simply cannot sell someone a seat on the plane for the price they could before, and those quirky customers cannot sustain them. So? people sit in torture positions, get crazy, literally they go nuts...

People just cannot think anymore lol.

[Phase III]

Makes a lot of sense... Ballpark figures work here. Bottom line, Crawford does not command 80 bucks. Camacho is a great example, the guy, like Benitez and a lot of Puerto/Nueva york Ricans had a huge following in Puerto Rico and New York... And even then, the fights were affordable, certainly not almost 100 bucks.

All I can figure is these promoters are trying to suck the well dry... Crawford has a following in Omaha, a city of like 500K or so? Like you state the demographics are all off... Unless you get Crawford out and about, perhaps with a few free fights, whatever... Your banking on a few people paying a premium price...Not a good marketing strategy. Airlines... perfect example, they are now trying to get rid of all these special customers and their quirks... They simply cannot sell someone a seat on the plane for the price they could before, and those quirky customers cannot sustain them. So? people sit in torture positions, get crazy, literally they go nuts...

People just cannot think anymore lol.

The reason you see lack of fighter activity is because Promoting is a lost art. Today, Promoters offer little to no value to fighters. You think Hearn and Warren are doing any Promoting in Saudi? They just shine Turkie’s shoes and let him do all the work. If you’re Fury, or AJ for example what in the world do you need Hearn and Warren for?

The current model is a complete bust. Fighters should get paid based on their F+E value. TR offering Shakur $3M per fight is crazy. He’s not worth $1M at best if he’s not fighting someone like Tank, Loma, or Teo because his F+E value as a stand alone is not worth more than $500K.

So what happens? Promoters must sell PPV (Crawford) for $79.95 for example which cannot possibly draw more than 150K buys for his next fight at best.

You want proof? Tell fighters like Crawford and Shakur that they will be paid by taking 50% of the Promoters PPV share, and they will never accept it because their F+E value is a PPV bust.

If Crawford’s next PPV did 100K buys at $79.95 and Crawford agreed to take 50% of the Promoters share, ($8M) he would receive $4M max. That is his value. Now he thinks he’s worth $10M. Some delusional Promoter could probably pay him what he thinks he’s worth and be out of business for sheer incompetence. The case for Shakur is far worse.

Keep in mind that Top Ranks ESPN deal will not be renewed next year. Why? The suits at ESPN finally figured out that having the UFC as their primary partner easily brings more views than boxing. Views is what dictates advertising $$$ for any TV or cable network. network. Therefore TR will need to migrate to a PPV model and do small cost effective shows to keep their fighters busy. That requires Promoting and Marketing, which forces Promoters like Arum to reach into his pockets. That model is long gone.

Regardless what anyone tells you, fighter activity matters and fighting 1-2 times a year does very little to build a loyal fan base.

Today’s fighters have out-priced themselves, and Promoters who signed multi-fight deals with fighters have finally figured out that that is no longer sustainable. HBO and Showtime got out of boxing because the monster they created (over paying fighters) had their shareholders raising hell. They model they created just wasn’t sustainable and actually hurt their bottom line.

[Bronx2245]

Maybe your reading comp is on a par with my time spent as a boxing fan? Let me try to break it down... Hopefully the few minutes it takes to do so go towards the length of my experience as a boxing fan?

1. You made a statement saying that Shakur is being avoided... This is a fair statement. It stands to be a good possibility.

2. You then made a giant leap of logic assuming that The reason Shakur was/is avoided is because he is such a good fighter. Presumably these other fighters are afraid to fight Shakur... as implied by your logic.

There are any number of other possible reasons Shakur was avoided. Why assume other fighters are scared of him? For example,

1. one poster described a better fight schedule for Loma, including a belt for the trouble.

2. There might be a financial reason, another fighter being a better draw... more money

3. Maybe the WBC is not the final word... This happens when people try to fight/grab for titles, perhaps no one cares about when a mandatory comes up... For example, Lewis was supposed to fight John Ruiz years ago for a mandatory, Ruiz ****** a s s... So Lewis said "Fck the mando, I am fighting who the FANS want me to fight... Michael Grant," who was viewed as a legit threat to Lewis at the time and was who the fans wanted Lewis to fight.

You give Shakur too much credit if you think he is such a powerhouse that fighters like Cruz, are scared of him...

You have a lot reasons why they should not have fought Shakur, and you don’t seem bothered at all. That bothers me. Well since we’re playing “what if…,” what if Bob Arum intentionally damaged Shakur’s shot at glory, by streering Loma and Navarrette away from him, because he decided not to sign an extension late ‘22, early’23? Could that be possible? Would that bother you?