Is Canelo Greater than Chavez ? If he never fights Benavidez

[j0zef]

Except Canelo has a list of quality wins so that point doesn't make sense.

Avoid where? I wasn't asked. Canelo's win over Golovkin 2 is much better than Sanchez' over Nelson.

That's the thing though - Canelo's "win" over Golovkin is heavily disputed. Canelo - GGG 1 had atrocious scorecards after which 1 judge was suspended. Then he got busted for PEDs. His "win" over GGG 2 was by 1 round. At that time, Golovkin was 36 years old and Alvarez was 28. In this thread you have folks claim that Canelo, at 33, is "past his prime". What does that mean for the fight you're referring? That in his prime Alvarez needed paid off judges to win by 1 round vs. a 36 year old washed GGG?

I'm no expert or historian, but Sanchez dropped Nelson a couple of times and stopped him in the end. That's not even close to the narrative in Canelo - GGG 2.

For Canelo, the legacy will always be match making. He has fought impressive opponents, I generally do not have a huge issue with his opponents (except last 2 years). But his opponents have all been of the same ilk - none of them are KO risk. Canelo had advantage of scoring in all of his fights, and him (or Reynoso) had picked opponents without power. The last time he fought a guy with power? Kovalev on short notice who was stopped twice and had alcohol issues. Before that? GGG2, which he tried to duck and forced to fight because he popped dirty on a PED test. Canelo's team has avoided fighters with power like the plague for 10 years, and they're continuing to do so. Call me naive, but I don't think he ever fights Benavidez, because David can knock Canelo out and ruin his legacy completely.

[garfios]

I remember the guy now, Buck Smith has 183 wins with 121 ko's.

[RuleOfTheSpear]

Mosley was 41 years old having a losing streak and Cotto was at the end of his career at 35 years old. He also had a catchweight of 155 and could only rehydrate 10 pounds due to the contract. Kovalev and Jacobs also had a rehydration clause. The former stating he was too worn down by the two consecutive training camps against Anthony Yarde and Eleider Alvarez in 2019.

I listed ranked contenders and champions that Chavez Sr faced, just because they didn't do enough to be remembered doesn't mean they were easy fights for the common fighter. There also champions listed like Ramirez, Randall, Parisi, Lopez, Gamache, Smith, Lockridge, Laporte, Mayweather, Rosario, Taylor, Camacho, and Haugen.

Not all of them are HOF material, but they are consistent champions that are physically at their prime. There are HOFs like Ramirez, Haugen and Mayweather, ATGs in Rosario and Camacho. Chavez also fought De La Hoya and Kostya at the end of his career with a controversial draw with Pernell Whittaker in favor of the American.

These were their records at the time of Cotto and Mosley:

Miguel Cotto (had a record of 40-4):
Screenshot_20240301_174118_Gallery.jpg

Shane Mosley (had a record of 46-7-1)
Screenshot_20240301_173132_**********

I agree with this. Both Cotto and Mosley never really had a tremendous win above 147.

Who were Cotto's best win at 154? A one-legged Yuri Foreman. best win at 160? A one-legged Sergio Martinez. Anybody can watch those fights and see for themselves how these fighters are still visibly injured and reeling from leg pain.

Mosley had one notable win at 154 and it was extremely close fight with Oscar during both their primes, when they first entered that 54 division and when they were still technically 147 fighters. After that fight, Mosley never really had a good career at 154 after back to back losses to Winky.

Prime Cotto and Prime Mosley were both in the 140-147 range.

[IronDanHamza]

That's the thing though - Canelo's "win" over Golovkin is heavily disputed. Canelo - GGG 1 had atrocious scorecards after which 1 judge was suspended. Then he got busted for PEDs. His "win" over GGG 2 was by 1 round. At that time, Golovkin was 36 years old and Alvarez was 28. In this thread you have folks claim that Canelo, at 33, is "past his prime". What does that mean for the fight you're referring? That in his prime Alvarez needed paid off judges to win by 1 round vs. a 36 year old washed GGG?

I'm no expert or historian, but Sanchez dropped Nelson a couple of times and stopped him in the end. That's not even close to the narrative in Canelo - GGG 2.

For Canelo, the legacy will always be match making. He has fought impressive opponents, I generally do not have a huge issue with his opponents (except last 2 years). But his opponents have all been of the same ilk - none of them are KO risk. Canelo had advantage of scoring in all of his fights, and him (or Reynoso) had picked opponents without power. The last time he fought a guy with power? Kovalev on short notice who was stopped twice and had alcohol issues. Before that? GGG2, which he tried to duck and forced to fight because he popped dirty on a PED test. Canelo's team has avoided fighters with power like the plague for 10 years, and they're continuing to do so. Call me naive, but I don't think he ever fights Benavidez, because David can knock Canelo out and ruin his legacy completely.

How do you know the judges were paid off?

Golovkin was considered universally the P4P #1 fighter in the world at that time, past his best or not, and Canelo beat him. Yeah it was close and either way but he won, that's just a fact of the matter.

Nelson was never considered P4P #1 ever and especially not that version that Sanchez fought who wasn't in his prime either.

The manner of victory was better yes but the win over Golovkin is better than the win over Nelson.

[Jdasilva2012]

For how long have you following this sport that you come up with this question?

[garfios]

While I agree ggg is a beater fighter than Lopez, a dominant win over an established champion like Lopez is a much better win than the gift decision Canelo got over ggg.

Cotto? Yeah, thinking about it, that is a better win.

Cotto was past his prime too, Lopez was 28 yo, and he's a HOF.

[JakeTheBoxer]

ROFL, Canelo`s resume is full of gifts and old fighters. Again, what is his best win, 40 years old GGG?

And this guy is called like one of the best Mexicans ever? Are you nuts?

[Gaydrien Boner]

ROFL, Canelo`s resume is full of gifts and old fighters. Again, what is his best win, 40 years old GGG?

And this guy is called like one of the best Mexicans ever? Are you nuts?

His best win is Cotto and Callum Smith, don't even mention Amir Khan't as a great win

[Malvado]

His best win is Cotto and Callum Smith, don't even mention Amir Khan't as a great win

Might have given Canelo some credit on his win over Cotto but good lord why did he put catchweight and Rehydration stipulations on a declining fighter.

Obviously I think his win over a undefeated Austin Trout should be recognized, as he beat a fresher Cotto without the same advantages as Alvarez and actually belonged in the same division, but Trout isn't a ATG like Miguel and hasn't gotten any notable wins after suffering a single loss. He got treated as a sacrificial name to boost up the Charlo brothers and Hurd.

[BodyBagz]

JCC -
30 fights in before a solid opponent,
R May
Rock Lock
Rosario
R May 2
Meldrick (who really never amounted to anything)
Ca''macho''
Pea (pure robbery)
Randall (see Pea)

By this time, JCC is spent. Padding the stats before the inevitable.....

DLH
Tzoo

Nelo (Jumping ahead to when Nelo is 20 years old) -
Cintron
Trout
May
Angulo (never amounted to anything)
Lara
Kirkland (see Angulo)
Cotto.........

TBF, this is a silly, popularity infested comparison.
You can't find JCC fighting more than 1 ''quality'' name out of every dozen fights.

Nelo > JCC, if a person puts their emotions aside.
Nelo took way more risks and won.
JCC, not so much.