Comments Thread For: We All Want Canelo-Benavidez ... But Canelo Owes Us Nothing

[hugh grant]

People for a long time have said who they want Nell to fight.
Ask yourself has Nel o fought the names put forward over the years?

[Marchegiano]

MoonCheese - do you feel Canelo undermines your argument for the necessity of sanctioning bodies? Seems like they become the toothless "lineal" title once a fighter achieves a certain level of commercial power.

Until I was asked I had assumed guys like Canelo were the case-in-point for sanctioning bodies.

They do go toothless, they bend their own rules for some fighters, make changes overnight for some, and a whole lot more fans can complain about and be right.

It would be nice if the bodies did their ****ing jobs all the time, but they don't and the celerity boxers flex on that every single year, multiple times a year, and like anyone else that frustrates me.

Lineal does fix these things, by way of elimination. There is no sometimes lineal is fair. There is no they're a bad entertainer with all the personality of an acorn but man what a fighter in lineal. Lineal cares about money exclusively.

Lineal has 0 contenders to duck

Lineal has 0 mandos to avoid

Lineal has 0 ranked fighters period

Lineal could care less about how the title transfers ownership. He who has the title is the champion, even if by gift.



Jake Paul is an example of a boxer making his way on entertainment value alone.

Filip Hrgovic is an example of a boxer making their way to a title fight through a mandatory position he earned with boxing ability alone.



If we're to speak in terms of absolutes, if you had to pick one of the two to be the blank moving forward and all of boxing was going to copy their career, would you rather the entertainer turned boxer model or the boy grew up boxing, trained hard, and earned his spot model?

So what we need is less corruption in the bodies not a lack of bodies entirely. A lack of bodies would ensure, for sure, all the **** y'all ***** about is not a problem because ain't no one given a damn thing for ability alone without a body to do it. Don't have to worry about who nelo fights next, it's a debut, or a guy who fought for the first time ever on his undercard last week. Look at the records of those who did exist during a time without bodies. Ten fights a long career. Not as champion, ten, the whole entire career. Why? Because they held the belt ransom and only one of them needed to be an entertainer. Don't have to worry about the IBF stripping Fury-Usyk given without bodies there is no undisputed in the first place.


Usyk was made 1 or 2 overnight by beating a guy who was never lineal and was always favored to lose to the lineal. Under a lineal system what would Usyk rank be? Would he be the logical contender to Tyson's belt? Would Fil? How about the long faced Brit that pulls in them big bucks and was always seen as second to Tyson? Without bodies there is no reason Tyson Fury fights Usyk. You can fix that by getting rid of bodies, but you're getting rid of all the Fury-Usyks that would have ever been too.



Buster ain't joke his way to Tyson.

Lennox did not shuck and jive his way to Evander

Ward and B-Hop about a boring ass mug outside the ring.

I think the call to tighten up the bodies is all you really need to know, to know you want bodies around. If y'all was saying **** like "**** the bodies, I just want to see how rich Tyson can get" it'd make sense. Saying **** like "**** the bodies, I just want to see Nelo uni, mando, step up in weight, step down in weight, etc." does not ****ing make any ****ing sense at all.

[TheOneAboveAll]

Benavidez landed at 38% Canelo 32%, he also landed twice as many punches on Plant, and despite not stopping him he put a longer sustained beating on Plant that Canelo did, who didn't beat him up at all until he caught him. Canelo did not win every round he lost 3-4 rounds. You literally got everything wrong. Plus Benavidez did it in a bigger ring vs and improved Plant and a corrupt Ref helping Plant.

Get glasses.

Benavidez was getting outboxed and almost embarrassed by Plant for the first 5 rounds. Canelo had no such difficulty dealing with Plant.

[TheOneAboveAll]

I've missed something. What's happened with Boxing scene?

Under new mgmt, ProBox.

[Superbee]

Only thing Ginger owes us is getting humiliated again against Bivol @ 168.... Nothing else matters ...

[garfios]

Telenovela? I was under the impression that Canelo had the best resume in the sport.

I'll say inoe has fought way better competition than canelo. If you think old fighters like cotto, mosley and kovalev are good wins, I can tell you a lot of fans think they don't count, maybe you're counting the smith's, yildrim, fielding, fat saunders and ryder as elite wins, not really. His wins are garbage, you can count jacobs and plant as good wins but nothing on the elite level, he waited out ggg and lost the first fight, arguably the second one too.

[TheOneAboveAll]

I'll say inoe has fought way better competition than canelo. If you think old fighters like cotto, mosley and kovalev are good wins, I can tell you a lot of fans think they don't count, maybe you're counting the smith's, yildrim, fielding, fat saunders and ryder as elite wins, not really. His wins are garbage, you can count jacobs and plant as good wins but nothing on the elite level, he waited out ggg and lost the first fight, arguably the second one too.

I am probably the biggest GGG fan on this entire site. I think GGG won the first two fights against Canelo, and agree that Canelo waited him out for the 3rd. Even so, he has consistently fought the highest level of competition of anyone in the sport. Inoue is great and is a future 1st ballot HOF fighter, but who has he fought that could be considered great? The one and only opponent that fits that description is Nonito Donaire and he was 37 yrs old in the first fight and almost 40 yrs old in the second fight. For a bantamweight (who age in dog years) that is roughly equivalent to fighting a 60 year old. Inoue has without a doubt fought the best competition available to him, but he's only fought 9 world champions so far along with several no-name "yildirim' types. He has more work to do before he eclipses Canelo.

[Theshotyoudontsee]

This just shows me how little you understand boxing.

Davids strength is endurance and volume. Those are both Canelo's weaknesses, yet you think its a perfect style match up. Just amazing.

David is huge, Canelo is small. David is faster. He has power, and skill, is aggression yet durable, yet you think this sounds like a perfect match up for Canelo. Its actually a nightmare match up. He is a much bigger, faster and younger version of GGG basically.

Canelo will just be hitting his high guard with his predictable bombs, before he gasses by mid rounds and gets drowned with punches and stopped. Thinking just because David couldnt stop Plant he can't stop Canelo is so dumb. They are totally different style.

We have to wait 2-3 more fights? So another 2 years? Canelo just allowing PBC to age him out into his mid 30s? You really believe that nonsense? Canelo is ducking him, and agrees with everything I said.

These narratives are so ******. First David had to earn the fight, but then when he earns it he still has to wait a few more years to 'marinate' the fight? Christ the ******ity.

Summed it up really well.

The problem is, when a good fighter is pushed by the sport as a superstar because he is marketable, his promoters buy some gift decisions, etc etc...over time certain fans will support the guy no matter what happens. Maybe someone really loves Canelo because they enjoyed one of his fights at a party, good memories, that type of thing. And that is totally fine.

The problem comes in when the guy blatantly loses but the judges are paid to keep the illusion going. Canelo lost to GGG, and if that first fight is scored properly, his career takes a big hit...but, he would have been far more respected by people who just like good boxing. Not hating, just the truth. Then he lost the second GGG fight and got another gift, it begins to stink. None of that matters to GGG haters or Canelo fanboys, but it just hurts the sport. Look at the state it is in now. As the sport and fanbase dwindles, the promoters are frantically doing anything they can to build their guys into "stars", even though most of the guys we see fighting today are not even that good.

As it is, Canelo is a good fighter with a great chin, bad stamina and alot of aging out guys and cherry picking, to keep the illusion going. But a superfan of his cannot see the obvious, so no amount of logic and facts matter. To them, Canelo is a phenom. Canelo has never been a great fighter, he is not massively skilled, every time he fights a really decent guy, his chin keeps him from getting stopped, and he gets gifts because judges are greased to keep the hype train moving.

IMO Benavidez stops Canelo in the later rounds. Plant should have been DQ'ed for holding against Benavidez, it was silliness. A far worse beating than Canelo gave hm. Plant fought Canelo scared, he was there to survive obviously, it was embarrassing to hear Plant kissing Canelo's ass in the ring. He tried to actually outbox Benavidez and he just got pummeled. Canelo would have a puncher's shot, but Benavidez almost certainly busts him up and stops him.

[TintaBoricua]

I wonder how many people read the article or are just reading the headline and running to the keyboard.

There are snippets of truth in both the article AND SOME posters here, a lot is just hot air.

My stance hasn’t changed one much in the past year or so.

Here’s the BOTTOM LINE:

Does Benavidez deserve a shot at Canelo? Yes.

Would I like to see Canelo fight Benavidez? Yes.

Would I be mad if Canelo retired without facing Benavidez? No.

Is he going into the hall of fame? That’s in the bag long ago.

Would it hurt his legacy? I think Raskin hit the nail on the head to be honest. Canelo’s been fighting so long, and so much against so many big names that whatever credibility gets damaged is offset by the good credit he’s built in his illustrious career.

Those that have been watching boxing know that it doesn’t matter what challenges you take on and how much you to try to satiate naysayers, there will ALWAYS be a next guy. There is NOT a single fighter that has faced every single threat without someone coming out of the bushes and saying, “Umm, acTuALLy…”

I DO agree, however, that I think the organizations keeping Canelo high in the rankings are deserving of more criticism and not enforcing that fight so as to corner Canelo and force him to fight or get stripped.

I think Canelo still beats him, but I firmly believe if it happens, it’s September.

The American fighter he’s alluding to…it technically can be Benavidez. Cause Benavidez doesn’t have Mexican citizenship…Munguia does.

Fighting Jermall after the vomit-inducing performance by Jermell would be like getting slapped in the face with a 60 pound halibut.

[TheOneAboveAll]

Summed it up really well.

The problem is, when a good fighter is pushed by the sport as a superstar because he is marketable, his promoters buy some gift decisions, etc etc...over time certain fans will support the guy no matter what happens. Maybe someone really loves Canelo because they enjoyed one of his fights at a party, good memories, that type of thing. And that is totally fine.

The problem comes in when the guy blatantly loses but the judges are paid to keep the illusion going. Canelo lost to GGG, and if that first fight is scored properly, his career takes a big hit...but, he would have been far more respected by people who just like good boxing. Not hating, just the truth. Then he lost the second GGG fight and got another gift, it begins to stink. None of that matters to GGG haters or Canelo fanboys, but it just hurts the sport. Look at the state it is in now. As the sport and fanbase dwindles, the promoters are frantically doing anything they can to build their guys into "stars", even though most of the guys we see fighting today are not even that good.

As it is, Canelo is a good fighter with a great chin, bad stamina and alot of aging out guys and cherry picking, to keep the illusion going. But a superfan of his cannot see the obvious, so no amount of logic and facts matter. To them, Canelo is a phenom. Canelo has never been a great fighter, he is not massively skilled, every time he fights a really decent guy, his chin keeps him from getting stopped, and he gets gifts because judges are greased to keep the hype train moving.

IMO Benavidez stops Canelo in the later rounds. Plant should have been DQ'ed for holding against Benavidez, it was silliness. A far worse beating than Canelo gave hm. Plant fought Canelo scared, he was there to survive obviously, it was embarrassing to hear Plant kissing Canelo's ass in the ring. He tried to actually outbox Benavidez and he just got pummeled. Canelo would have a puncher's shot, but Benavidez almost certainly busts him up and stops him.