Does Boxing's respectability as a legitimate sport still exist at this point?

[F l i c k e r]

Are people still watching boxing fights?

If you answered yes there goes your question

[HandsofIron]

Heavyweight boxing is different ESPECIALLY in this era.
That is something that people who are shocked don't seem to realize.
Today it's all about size and how hard you can hit and take a hit. That's all. No great technique or strategies.

Fury is a sloppy fighter and has always been that way. Won the title in one of the worst championship fights in history.
He is used to fight much smaller or weaker guys and bully and lean on them. Wilder is big but has extremely weak legs. Ngannou's legs are trunks and he is the first one Fury's faced that was big and strong enough to not be bullied or leaned on.
THAT was Fury's problem.

Yup, that's Fury's M.O. the Klitschko jab & grab and lay & pray. Fury holds and lays on the smaller opponents until they get tired from all the wrestling, and they get KO, example Steve Cunningham fight.

Fury finally fights a guy about the same size as himself, the wrasstling tactics backfire and he doesn't know what to do, like a deer in headlights.

[TMLT87]

When I talk about history, I am not talking about the 1990's mate 'I am talking about 100's of years ago in the past. I am talking about how boxing came from no holds barred fighting. Boxing was a progression from no holds barred fighting, and for whatever reason? Mankind decided that boxing was going to be the way, that two men at the pinnacle of combat competition have a duel' It has been that way ever since, and this is still the situation now.

Boxing refining itself into having more rules so it can be sanctioned as a sport and more socially acceptable does not = "it evolved from MMA", its a weird angle that I think some boxing fans are trying to comfort themselves with ie pretending that boxing has already been challenged by a rival combat sport in the past the way it is by MMA now, and that people eventually "chose" boxing instead, so everythings gonna be fine.

There are only a few 100 combat Athletes in a mixed martial arts organisation 'That is it'. When they rise to the top of that organisation, they cannot be classed as World Champions, quite simply? The participation levels are too low, and really it is not a open class combat sport.

There is not domestic, or European levels 'In terms of participation levels, boxing is just a by far more vast sport'.

ALL combat sports have extremely small talent pools. There are around 20k active pro boxers on the planet typically. About 1000 HWs. The UK generally has about 50 active at any one time. Its a bigger talent pool than MMA, but probably not by anywhere near as much as you'd expect nowadays, and all of it combined (plus all other combat sports) is still tiny as **** compared to ball sports. So its a throwing stones in glass houses situation.

As far as the levels comment, there ARE levels in MMA though, i'll give you an example sticking with HWs. Greg Velasco is the current HW champ in CFFC, a domestic American promotion, pretty small time. He just recently went on Dana Whites Contender Series and lost, failing to earn a UFC contract. He is clearly a level below someone like Phil De Fries, the current HW champ of KSW, the biggest promotion in Europe, Phil was once in the UFC, where he went 2-3. Phil is also clearly a level below someone like Anatoliy Malykhin, the current HW champ in One FC, which is the biggest promotion in Asia and probably the 3rd biggest MMA promotion globally. And Malykhin is no ****ing way beating Ngannou or Jon Jones.

Btw something to take on board here is the UFC has around 1000 fighters signed to its roster at any one time these days. Thats a larger roster than PBC, Top Rank, Golden Boy, Matchroom, Boxxer and Queensberry combined, in a sport with a smaller total talent pool.

Ngannou was a Champion, of a organisation were he was competing against how many other fighters in his division? Not many mate 'Tell me how many athletes in total are in his former organisation, there are no World Champions in that sport'.

Just had a quick check and the UFC currently has 74 active HWs out of a total active HW talent pool of 250. So thats over a quarter of the entire pool, and obviously people work their way up to the UFC so are fighting HWs outside of it first.

In reality Ngannou is more proven as a top competitor in his sport than Fury is in his. Fury has had 35 fights across 15 years and once you get past Wlad and Wilder his third best win is.....? Shyte? Del Boy? the Swede that nobody had heard of at the time? Steve Cunningham? In 20 MMA fights Ngannou fought a third of the current top 15 plus two more guys who were ranked in the top 10 at the time he faced them. So who is the real world champion really?

[Sentient A.I.]

I will always love boxing for all its faults, and will always watch it. Its got a great history and its aesthetically pleasing to watch and theres just something to the purity and simplicity of it. But I think anyone being honest with themselves knows that if we are judging it solely as a form of combat, or an arena where the best fighters prove themselves...once you realise that the best boxers on the planet would consistently get wrecked in MMA or even kickboxing/muay thai the big title fights etc kind of lose a lot of their gravity and legitimacy This is why I laugh when people talk about how boxing has more "prestige" just because the belts are old or whatever. UFC title fights are genuinely crowning the best unarmed combatant on the planet at their weight.

And obviously this fight just now was extra bad because you've had a supposed "Jack of all trades master of none" surrender the ability to use most of his trades and STILL beat the **** out of a guy who was supposed to be the best HW boxer on the planet. Like what is Fury/Usyk even for anymore really? what does it prove?

Bold is false. MMA has many rules and restrictions and thus a champion in that sport is only a champion in that sport, nothing more.

once you realise that the best boxers on the planet would consistently get wrecked in MMA or even kickboxing/muay thai the big title fights etc kind of lose a lot of their gravity and legitimacy

I strongly disagree. People should already know that a boxer would be at a big disadvantage in another combat sport, and vice versa. Realization isn't necessary.

[PRINCEKOOL]

Boxing refining itself into having more rules so it can be sanctioned as a sport and more socially acceptable does not = "it evolved from MMA", its a weird angle that I think some boxing fans are trying to comfort themselves with ie pretending that boxing has already been challenged by a rival combat sport in the past the way it is by MMA now, and that people eventually "chose" boxing instead, so everythings gonna be fine.





ALL combat sports have extremely small talent pools. There are around 20k active pro boxers on the planet typically. About 1000 HWs. The UK generally has about 50 active at any one time. Its a bigger talent pool than MMA, but probably not by anywhere near as much as you'd expect nowadays, and all of it combined (plus all other combat sports) is still tiny as **** compared to ball sports. So its a throwing stones in glass houses situation.

As far as the levels comment, there ARE levels in MMA though, i'll give you an example sticking with HWs. Greg Velasco is the current HW champ in CFFC, a domestic American promotion, pretty small time. He just recently went on Dana Whites Contender Series and lost, failing to earn a UFC contract. He is clearly a level below someone like Phil De Fries, the current HW champ of KSW, the biggest promotion in Europe, Phil was once in the UFC, where he went 2-3. Phil is also clearly a level below someone like Anatoliy Malykhin, the current HW champ in One FC, which is the biggest promotion in Asia and probably the 3rd biggest MMA promotion globally. And Malykhin is no ****ing way beating Ngannou or Jon Jones.

Btw something to take on board here is the UFC has around 1000 fighters signed to its roster at any one time these days. Thats a larger roster than PBC, Top Rank, Golden Boy, Matchroom, Boxxer and Queensberry combined, in a sport with a smaller total talent pool.




Just had a quick check and the UFC currently has 74 active HWs out of a total active HW talent pool of 250. So thats over a quarter of the entire pool, and obviously people work their way up to the UFC so are fighting HWs outside of it first.

In reality Ngannou is more proven as a top competitor in his sport than Fury is in his. Fury has had 35 fights across 15 years and once you get past Wlad and Wilder his third best win is.....? Shyte? Del Boy? the Swede that nobody had heard of at the time? Steve Cunningham? In 20 MMA fights Ngannou fought a third of the current top 15 plus two more guys who were ranked in the top 10 at the time he faced them. So who is the real world champion really?

There are only 578 fighters contracted to Ngannou's former Mixed Martial Arts Organisation 'That number covers all weight classes, both male and female'.

When I was in high school, there were more pupils in my school that Ngannou's former fight organization.

The Heavyweight Champion of any mixed Martial arts organisation is not a World Champion 'Because it is not a open class sport, and the participation levels are too low'.

Boxing is not just one organisation, which consist of a few 100 fighters. Ngannou was only competing against a few 100 fighters, maybe not even that to claim his so called World Title. In-fact it is not even called a World title, because there are no World Champions in mixed martial arts'.

Boxing participation levels are drawn from the entire World 'The entire World, fighters can appear from nowhere. The participation levels are almost incalculable, there are so many levels to the sport from Amateur, domestic, European, to World level boxing'.

Boxing is not a centralized sport, you cannot calculate at any given time the number of fighters all pursuing or targeting the goal of being a World Champion.

Ngannou has now actually gone full circle, and entered into a true global combat sport 'That is essentially what has happened, and he cannot tap-out in this sport'.

Note: Boxing was a progression from Mixed Martial Arts. Boxing was a progression from no holds barred fighting, and for whatever reason? Mankind decided that boxing was going to be the way, that two men at the pinnacle of combat competition have a duel' It has been that way ever since, and this is still the situation now.

I understand that you do not want to accept this mate, but? That is just the way it is. And I understand your reasoning and thought processes. Because you are most likely thinking? Well those Mixed Martial Arts fighters, they have all these different disciplines, they can kick, they can wrestle on the fall, they might even jump up in the air and twirl around 'Amazing, that is fantastic'.

But it is not the pinnacle of combat sports, because boxing is. Ultra Marathon Running is not the pinnacle of Athleticism, because Track and Field Athletics is..

Rally Car driving, Indy Car Racing, Motor bike racing is not the pinnacle of motor sports, because formula one is 'I have analysed this same similar situation in other sports, within my other posts in this thread'.

Note: That just seems to be the way it is mate, and I believe this is due to the sociological, primordial, and theological reasons 'That go beyond the comprehension of what is being discussed within this thread, but I have touched upon these reasons in part'.

A Heavyweight prize fight happened on the weekend, and now that weekend has gone 'And the game moves on, the game moves on mate it has not stopped. The game is in constant motion, boxing is not centralized. It is a open class sport, and open class sports exist everywhere. They are apart of the fundamental fabric of society'.

The talent pool is the entire world, not just a few 100 Athletes who have signed on a piece of paper to fight in one organisation 'Boxing is on a completely different level to mixed martial arts in that respects'.

Mixed Martial Arts is not separate from boxing, they are also prize fighters 'So theoretically they are apart of boxing, they are distance relatives. And like I have stated on this thread, at some point ether a instinctual or immaterial influence will force combat fighters to ask themselves the question? Can they compete in boxing'.

That is all which has happened on the weekend mate, no sport really has been tarnished or destroyed 'Two men had a duel within the discipline of boxing, which historically has been the pinnacle litmus test of how two men have a duel. It was a close fight, and the game moves on'.

The World moves on, that is all.

[Rockin']

Fury had an off night, that's it.

People just love to read more in to everything when they are not impressed.

An off night, end of story.....................Rockin'

[TMLT87]

Bold is false. MMA has many rules and restrictions and thus a champion in that sport is only a champion in that sport, nothing more.

Lol, it has punches, knees, elbows, kicks, throws, chokes, other submissions, fights continuing on the ground etc b..b...b...ut if they only allowed biting though!!!

So who out there is favoured to beat them in a 1 vs 1 combat situation with zero rules?

[TMLT87]

There are only 578 fighters contracted to Ngannou's former Mixed Martial Arts Organisation 'That number covers all weight classes, both male and female'.

The UFCs own website allows you to check this. They have 948 fighters on their roster currently, again thats more than basically every major boxing promotion on the planet combined. 73 different countries represented, and the UFC has held 11 events outside of the US this year, in 2019 before Covid hit they were at 20 a year. The UFCs current p4p rankings have more nationalities represented than Rings current top 10.

The Heavyweight Champion of any mixed Martial arts organisation is not a World Champion 'Because it is not a open class sport, and the participation levels are too low'.

How many sports are there out there where the "world champion" is competing against a talent pool as small as boxings? again, throwing stones in glass houses with this.

Boxing participation levels are drawn from the entire World 'The entire World,

And so is MMAs. Not sure why you'd think otherwise?

Ngannou has now actually gone full circle, and entered into a true global combat sport 'That is essentially what has happened, and he cannot tap-out in this sport'.

A "true global combat" sport lol.

Outside of a handful of promotions in the UK and US there are more MMA promotions operating at a decent scale on a regular basis around the world than boxing promotions. And the UFC itself, even Bellator and PFL, tour internationally. The UFC has a much greater global reach than any boxing promotion. The biggest live crowds ever for a fight in both mainland Europe and Asia are from MMA promotions. If you were to break it down country by country I bet a lot of the biggest combat sports events held in many countries would be UFC events due to its touring nature.

At this stage, either they're both "global combat sports", or neither are.

Note: Boxing was a progression from Mixed Martial Arts. Boxing was a progression from no holds barred fighting, and for whatever reason? Mankind decided that boxing was going to be the way, that two men at the pinnacle of combat competition have a duel' It has been that way ever since, and this is still the situation now.

Okay okay boxing was a progression from a sport that didnt exist until the 1990s. Got it.

But it is not the pinnacle of combat sports, because boxing is

Boxing is the pinnacle of combat sports because a bunch of old MMA fighters and Youtubers now account for at least 50% of the time anyone outside of the boxing bubble pays attention to the sport, and the HW champ and arguably biggest actual boxing star just got beaten up by an 0-0 in boxing 37 year old MMA guy? thats your main take away from this?

[crimsonfalcon07]

TBH, I don't know that Ngannou performing so well is that much worse for boxing than Rolly getting a title shot at 140 having never fought at 140, and coming off a KO loss at 135, then being literally gifted a belt by a corrupt ref.

[Sentient A.I.]

Lol, it has punches, knees, elbows, kicks, throws, chokes, other submissions, fights continuing on the ground etc b..b...b...ut if they only allowed biting though!!!

Biting? You don't know that there is much more they can't do than biting?

So who out there is favoured to beat them in a 1 vs 1 combat situation with zero rules?

Anyone who is better at 1 vs 1 combat situations with zero rules.