is vitali best HW ever for judging and controlling distance?

[j]

yeah me too, can remember exactly where i was, was like a HW version of gatti v ward, very rare you see a slug fest between two HWs, because usually a decent dig off a handy HW is curtains for the recipient. for once lennox wasnt susceptible to a random KO because he was fully aware of the fact he was in the ring with someone who could murder him if he wasnt careful. let's not forget this was the fight with the heaviest overrall weight for a boxing match ever at the time (valuev has skewed these figures since and probably williams v vitali too) and both men didnt touch the deck once

legendary fight and one i'll watch forever

yes! exactly. i mean, damn! toe to toe mostly every minute of every round between 2 big punchers and 2 guys who both severely wanted to win.

it seemed like lewis already hated the K bros as he didnt give vitali his mandatory due even after 1.5 or more years as number 1.

and vitali eagerly wanted to get his due and felt lewis was sidetracking him(which i agree with.)

and yeah, remember the fans in the staples center after every round? damn! that dont happen that often in boxing - a sold out stadium, the stadium getting sold out upon the upgrading of the fight, and the fans being so loud at the end of the fight. i mean, that renewed boxing in a big way. if lewis would have granted a rematch, it probably would have been the biggest fight in recent memory.

[YNWA]

no, he's bigger and stronger than anyone else in his division, he's fundamentally sound. with this he can beat all the other fatties with no head movement with ease.

He already lost to a terrible looking version of Lewis. End of.

or another way of looking at it is he was winning on points against the HW champ (a very formidable champ) in a fight he took at short notice and with very little experience of fighting anyone of a similar size

i like lewis, think he was a brilliant fighter to be honest, but vitali now is older than lewis was when he fought him and vitali is quite possibly better now than he ever has been. lewis was never really in a war so he was never an age-ravaged fighter if that makes sense. some fighters show their age because they get hit a lot, vitali and lewis very rarely got or get hit

[j]

i always say this, u cant make excuses before going into the ring. unless you are a very very poor sportsman, or just an idiot.

i dont make excuses for wladimir when he lost to sanders. he lost cause he was ****** and got caught up with some chick. but, that is not really an excuse. it contributed to him losing. and he let the problem influence him. and, also by taking the opponent lightly - which you should never do, especially with a hard-as-f#ck hitting guy who had nothing to lose.

so, saying lewis was out of shape has no bearing on how well lewis performed because his shape was included as part of his training. i dont buy into that as an excuse as to why vitali looked as good as he did outboxing the champ.

vitali was facing a much lower ranked fighter btw. so, had they both trained for eachother, only imaginations can calculate the outcome.

besides, do people really think lewis is that much more elite? these people must have never seen vitali fight before than or since.

[PBDS]

i always say this, u cant make excuses before going into the ring. unless you are a very very poor sportsman, or just an idiot.

i dont make excuses for wladimir when he lost to sanders. he lost cause he was ****** and got caught up with some chick. but, that is not really an excuse. it contributed to him losing. and he let the problem influence him. and, also by taking the opponent lightly - which you should never do, especially with a hard-as-f#ck hitting guy who had nothing to lose.

so, saying lewis was out of shape has no bearing on how well lewis performed because his shape was included as part of his training. i dont buy into that as an excuse as to why vitali looked as good as he did outboxing the champ.

vitali was facing a much lower ranked fighter btw. so, had they both trained for eachother, only imaginations can calculate the outcome.

besides, do people really think lewis is that much more elite? these people must have never seen vitali fight before than or since.

....Lewis was in tip top shape according to Emmanuel Steward. All the talk about Lewis being unprepared and out of shape is utter nonsense.

[realheavyhands]

i think finally people are realising that despite a slightly awkward looking style and stance he's a master at judging and controlling range, distance and perimeter

how many HWs past or present can/could get away without a high guard against renowned punchers and never be in trouble simply through the abilty to eliminate their danger through clever movement, jabs and footwork

larry holmes and ali also sonny liston..and those guys had to fight killers ..those guys were good and in shape and fought 15 rounds.... fraizer forema lyle liston ali and holmes would all beat vitali or wlad

[realheavyhands]

....Lewis was in tip top shape according to Emmanuel Steward. All the talk about Lewis being unprepared and out of shape is utter nonsense.

he looked fat to me

[j]

10 lbs doesnt mean that much in heavyweights. i know it never affected my movement and i am not even a heavyweight. and, usually the bigger heavier fighter, the more lbs's that the other fighter adds on.

usually, when people think fighters are "in shape" it is because of dehydration.

whether lewis was in shape or not, doesnt mean that he couldnt fight. he obviously had a training camp. so i doubt that he was not "ready" to fight. i also doubt there would have been a huge difference had he been 5 or 10 lbs lighter. that is specualtion at the most.

[YNWA]

larry holmes and ali also sonny liston..and those guys had to fight killers ..those guys were good and in shape and fought 15 rounds.... fraizer forema lyle liston ali and holmes would all beat vitali or wlad

none of those fighters controlled distance like vitali. ali was a master at counter punching and deception and had fast hands but didnt control his perimeter like vitali does, mostly due to his lack of reach and bulk. only comparable fighter he fought was foreman and foreman was one-dimensional, tough and strong as they come but one-dimensional with no variety. holmes was a good traditional HW and liston was a vicious monster but neither was a strategic dominator

vitali beats all three imo

[j]

anways, this thread is about controlling distance and ring generalship.

i start counting from the pre-fight staring, and base it in rounds of 2, or somethimes round by round if it is a crazy fight.

so, this argument is not about LL.

it is about how the boxing fans feel about VK's ring generalship, timing, and use of his body to fight with.

and me, personally, i have seen him look pretty much unbeatable using his unorthodox skills.

i think most people would be more on-board if he were an american or african american. it seems like there is more a problem having a light skinned champion, especially in the heavyweight division.

[j]

he looked fat to me

this is not about whether he was fat or not.

topic is: does vitali have a top 5 ring generalship, use of range, angles, tactics, and dominant ring performance?