Comments Thread For: Anthony Joshua: I Need to Get My Fighting Spirit Back, Push Myself Again; It's Going to Be Tough

[Marchegiano]

Have a wank, you'll feel better.

[Zelda]

Did you considered Tyson Fury as the favorite vs Wladimir Kilstchko? Fury was not the champion and had been knocked down by smaller opponents before. Still, I gave him a fair chance.

Did you considered David Haye as the favorite vs Wladimir Kiltschko? Wlad was 35 at that time, not 41. Haye had speed but was the smaller guy. NO

Did you considered Byrant Jennings the favorite vs Wladimir Kiltschko? Not really. Jennings wasn't a champion. He was good but not the top dog.

Would you have considered Leon Spinks in his two fights vs Muhammad Ali the favorite? I wasn't surprised. Ali was past his prime and only boxing for the money. Shavers hit him quite badly. It certainly wouldn't be a done deal for me to consider Ali beating an elite fighter anymore. It shows in both results and subsequent fights.

Did you considered Kelly Pavlik as the favorite vs Bernard Hopkins? haven't watched the fight

Did you considered Jean Pascal the favorite vs Bernard Hopkins twice? haven't watched the fight

Did you considered Keith Thurman the favorite vs Manny Pacquiao? Yes. I thought Thurman would get him even though Manny was coming off wins. It was a close fight.

Would you have considered Gerry Cooney the favorite vs Larry Holmes? NO. Why would I? Holmes was just 33 and defended his title for the next 8 fights after that.

Did you considered Canelo Alvarez the favorite vs Floyd Mayweather Junior? No. Mayweather was 36, not 40+ at that time. If they were to fight today, yes.


Wladimir was 41 yrs old and AJ was his last fight before retirement. AJ was a champion, young, and strong boxer with Olympic gold medal, not some random contender. Big difference between him and say, Jennings. Btw, here's what Klitschko himself had to say of Fury:

"Klitschko: "I think this will be one of the hardest fights of my career. This time the opponent will be taller, heavier, with very long arms, and he is also younger and has great ambitions. This guy really wants to prove himself in the ring and confirm what he keeps telling everyone, that he's the best in the world."

[PRINCEKOOL]

So what you saying is that Wladimir should be the favorite because he had more experience.

That in part was a factor in my reasoning back in 2017, Kiltschko was a more experienced and proven fighter. I don't always side with the more experienced and proven fighter in terms of achievements. BUT FOR THAT PARTICULAR FIGHT I DID, I just considered Wladimir Kiltschko's overall feats of achievement and vast experience back in 2017 vs Anthony Joshua, too great for me not to consider him as the favorite.

And I believe that my reasoning was and is completely valid. A fighters achievements to date, and experienced are important factors which should be considered and not overlooked WHEN you personally decide to back a fighter.

I.E SECTION 1.2. Contains my personal explanation and reasoning as to why I considered Wladimir Kiltschko the favorite vs Anthony Joshua back in 2017. If you disagree with my reasoning, and believe that it is completely invalid then that is your prerogative.

Did you considered Tyson Fury as the favorite vs Wladimir Kilstchko? Fury was not the champion and had been knocked down by smaller opponents before. Still, I gave him a fair chance.

So you considered Wladimir Kiltschko the favorite, because he was to the more experienced and proven fighter at that stage of his career vs Tyson Fury. Even though Tyson Fury was 13 years his Junior. This is the same reasoning as to how I personally decided to consider Wladimir Kiltschko favorite vs Anthony Joshua back in 2017. I.E Section 1.2.

Did you considered David Haye as the favorite vs Wladimir Kiltschko? Wlad was 35 at that time, not 41. Haye had speed but was the smaller guy. NO

So you considered Wladimir Kiltschko the favorite, because he was the more experienced, proven fighter at Heavyweight at that stage of his career. Even though David Haye was 8 years his junior. This is the same reasoning as to how I personally decided to consider Wladimir Kiltschko favorite vs Anthony Joshua back in 2017. I.E Section 1.2.

Did you considered Byrant Jennings the favorite vs Wladimir Kiltschko? Not really. Jennings wasn't a champion. He was good but not the top dog.

So you considered Wladimir Kiltschko the favorite, because he was the more experienced and proven fighter at that stage of his career vs Byrant Jennings. Even though Byrant Jennings was 9 years his junior. This is the same reasoning as to how I personally decided to consider Wladimir Kiltschko favorite vs Anthony Joshua back in 2017. I.E Section 1.2.

Would you have considered Leon Spinks in his two fights vs Muhammad Ali the favorite? I wasn't surprised. Ali was past his prime and only boxing for the money. Shavers hit him quite badly. It certainly wouldn't be a done deal for me to consider Ali beating an elite fighter anymore. It shows in both results and subsequent fights.

So you considered Leon Spinks the favorite vs Muhammad Ali in their two fights.

Did you considered Kelly Pavlik as the favorite vs Bernard Hopkins? haven't watched the fight

I personally considered Bernard Hopkins as the favorite and was backing Hopkins to beat Kelly Pavlik. The reason why I considered Hopkins the favorite for me, was because overall he was a more experienced and proven fighter than Kelly Pavlik at that stage of his career. Even though Kelly Pavik was 17 years his Junior. This is the same reasoning as to how I personally decided to consider Wladimir Kiltschko favorite vs Anthony Joshua back in 2017. I.E Section 1.2.

Did you considered Jean Pascal the favorite vs Bernard Hopkins twice? haven't watched the fight

I personally considered Bernard Hopkins as the favorite and was backing him to beat Jean Pascal. The reason why I considered Hopkins the favorite for me, was because overall he was a more experienced and proven fighter than Jean Pascal at that stage of his career. Even though Jean Pascal was 18 years his Junior. This is the same reasoning as to how I personally decided to consider Wladimir Kiltschko favorite vs Anthony Joshua back in 2017. I.E Section 1.2.

Did you considered Keith Thurman the favorite vs Manny Pacquiao? Yes. I thought Thurman would get him even though Manny was coming off wins. It was a close fight.

So you personally considered Keith Thurman as the favorite vs Manny Pacquiao.

Would you have considered Gerry Cooney the favorite vs Larry Holmes? NO. Why would I? Holmes was just 33 and defended his title for the next 8 fights after that.

So you considered Larry Holmes as the favorite, because he was the more experienced and proven fighter at that stage of his career vs Gerry Cooney. Even though Gerry Cooney was 8 years his junior. This is the same reasoning as to how I personally decided to consider Wladimir Kiltschko favorite vs Anthony Joshua back in 2017. I.E Section 1.2.

Did you considered Canelo Alvarez the favorite vs Floyd Mayweather Junior? No. Mayweather was 36, not 40+ at that time. If they were to fight today, yes.

So you considered Floyd Mayweather as the favorite, because he was the more experienced and proven fighter at that stage of his career vs Canelo Alvarez. Even though Canelo Alvarez was 13 years his Junior. This is the same reasoning as to how I personally decided to consider Wladimir Kiltschko favorite vs Anthony Joshua back in 2017. I.E Section 1.2.

Wladimir was 41 yrs old and AJ was his last fight before retirement. AJ was a champion, young, and strong boxer with Olympic gold medal, not some random contender. Big difference between him and say, Jennings. Btw, here's what Klitschko himself had to say of Fury:

"Klitschko: "I think this will be one of the hardest fights of my career. This time the opponent will be taller, heavier, with very long arms, and he is also younger and has great ambitions. This guy really wants to prove himself in the ring and confirm what he keeps telling everyone, that he's the best in the world."

Section 1.2. This post below contains information which explains my personal reasoning as to why I considered Wladimir Kiltschko as the favorite vs Anthony Joshua in 2017. If you disagree with my reasoning, and believe that it is completely invalid then that is your prerogative.

My original point was that Anthony Joshua beat and faced a better version of Wladimir Kiltschko than Tyson Fury. And I have posted statistics and evidence to back this up 'You in comparison are just using generalizations, cliches, lies and subjective opinion'.

Why would I consider Wladimir Kiltschko as a favorite vs Anthony Joshua at the time when they fought? Because Wladimir Kiltschko was a vastly more experienced and proven fighter than Joshua 'I will regurgitate the historic information and evidence which proves that statement of mine correct.

You have posted no facts, no statistics and no evidence 'And you are continuing to lie and make things up, I have not ran from any questions. I have answered your questions, and backed up my points with evidence, thus proving my points.

What made Wladimir Kiltschko a vastly more experienced and proven fighter than Anthony Joshua? Wladimir Kiltschko fought 134 amateur fights winning 128 of those bouts and losing only 6. During his amateur career Kiltschko also won the Olympic Title maximizing his potential.

In the professional ranks Kiltschko participated in 68 professional fights at the time he fought Joshua. 26 of those fights were Championship fights, which means? Wladimir Kiltschko fought in 26 fights were he was ether Champion, or fighting for a World title.

Wladimir Kiltschko achieved 23 successful defenses of his World titles, and had fought 26 Championship fights in total. Wladimir Kiltschko has achieved the 3rd highest consecutive number of Championship defenses in the History of Heavyweight boxing with 18 Championship defenses 'Only Larry Holmes and Joe Louis have achieve more consecutive title defenses'.

But statistically as a whole, Wladimir Kiltschko when you combine all of his title fight wins 'Has achieved the highest number of Heavyweight Championship defenses in the entire documented History of Heavyweight Boxing'.

Anthony Joshua in comparison at that stage of his career, had competed in a total of 3 Championship fights as a professional. And as a Amateur Joshua competed in a number of 43 bouts, winning 40 of those fights 'During his amateur career Joshua also won the Olympic title'. Joshua had only competed in a total of 18 professional fights, on the eve of his fight vs Wladimir Kiltschko.

These statistics and evidence, is the reason why I would and did consider Wladimir Kiltschko to be the favorite vs Anthony Joshua 'Because as you can see? The evidence clearly shows that Kiltschko was a vastly more experienced and proven fighter than Joshua'.

Wladimir Kiltschko was denied the opportunity to win back his titles vs Tyson Fury 'So claiming that he was a yesteryear fighter is not a proven fact. Wladimir Kiltschko as a boxer had won every single rematch he had ever fought in during his career to date 'Hypothetically speaking there was a possibility that he could of beaten Tyson Fury, if Fury would of actually fought in their rematch'.

Why do I believe Wladimir Kiltschko was in better condition for Anthony Joshua compared to Tyson Fury? The reason why I believe Kiltschko was in better condition for Joshua, than Tyson Fury is because 'Kiltschko had to endure three back to back training camps before fighting Joshua. The reason why Kiltschko had to endure 3 back to back training camps is because Tyson Fury unfortunately kept pulling out of their rematch. These historic facts also prove that Wladimir Kiltschko never retired, or was never in semi-retirement like you stated which WAS one of your lies.

What evidence is there which proves Kiltschko was in better condition more optimally prepared for Joshua compared to Fury? Wladimir Kiltschko weighed in at 240 pounds vs Anthony Joshua, compared to 245 pounds vs Tyson Fury. This statistics can be used to prove that he was in objectively better condition. Kiltschko is a man of science and a expert in his field, and by his own estimations he has stated the version of himself who fought Anthony Joshua was in BETTER condition than the version of himself that fought Tyson Fury 17 months prior.

Aesthetically Kiltschko was visually in better condition for Joshua, and the numbers also add more evidence to his overall improved conditioning.

It is also not scientifically impossible for a athlete at that stage of Kiltschko's career to improve their overall fitness in a 17 month period 'In comparison to the version of themselves 17 months prior. The evidence which proves this belief of my as truth is common universal knowledge within physical science.

Athletes or people don't just reach a certain stage in their careers, were their deterioration in overall fitness becomes linear. A example which again proves my point, is that Mike Tyson before he planned to fight Roy Jones Junior in a exhibition 'Mike Tyson had to improve his overall fitness and conditioning'.

The Mike Tyson who fought Roy Jones Junior in a exhibition, was categorically in better condition and was a better fighter 'Than the Mike Tyson at the start of his training camp'. And this can only be possible if? A fighter or athlete can improve their conditioning and individual components of fitness, even at that advance stage in their life 'During that time period'.

Note: I believe I have made my points very clear, and I have backed up my points with evidence and statistics. The only way this debate is going to continue, is if you decide to subjectively disagree with me. Because you have still yet to post any evidence or statistics to counter my points. This information presented here, will just be regurgitated within this debate, I have stated all that has needed to stated at this point etc.

[Carpe Diem]

Nah, you’re not that guy. Mentally, he’s never going to be “Him” and it’s a damn shame too. Physically, he’s the epitome of what a true heavyweight boxer should look like, but lacks the mental toughness/killer instinct to put it all together.

[Zelda]

That in part was a factor in my reasoning back in 2017, Kiltschko was a more experienced and proven fighter. I don't always side with the more experienced and proven fighter in terms of achievements. BUT FOR THAT PARTICULAR FIGHT I DID, I just considered Wladimir Kiltschko's overall feats of achievement and vast experience back in 2017 vs Anthony Joshua, too great for me not to consider him as the favorite.

And I believe that my reasoning was and is completely valid. A fighters achievements to date, and experienced are important factors which should be considered and not overlooked WHEN you personally decide to back a fighter.

I.E SECTION 1.2. Contains my personal explanation and reasoning as to why I considered Wladimir Kiltschko the favorite vs Anthony Joshua back in 2017. If you disagree with my reasoning, and believe that it is completely invalid then that is your prerogative.



So you considered Wladimir Kiltschko the favorite, because he was to the more experienced and proven fighter at that stage of his career vs Tyson Fury. Even though Tyson Fury was 13 years his Junior. This is the same reasoning as to how I personally decided to consider Wladimir Kiltschko favorite vs Anthony Joshua back in 2017. I.E Section 1.2.



So you considered Wladimir Kiltschko the favorite, because he was the more experienced, proven fighter at Heavyweight at that stage of his career. Even though David Haye was 8 years his junior. This is the same reasoning as to how I personally decided to consider Wladimir Kiltschko favorite vs Anthony Joshua back in 2017. I.E Section 1.2.



So you considered Wladimir Kiltschko the favorite, because he was the more experienced and proven fighter at that stage of his career vs Byrant Jennings. Even though Byrant Jennings was 9 years his junior. This is the same reasoning as to how I personally decided to consider Wladimir Kiltschko favorite vs Anthony Joshua back in 2017. I.E Section 1.2.



So you considered Leon Spinks the favorite vs Muhammad Ali in their two fights.



I personally considered Bernard Hopkins as the favorite and was backing Hopkins to beat Kelly Pavlik. The reason why I considered Hopkins the favorite for me, was because overall he was a more experienced and proven fighter than Kelly Pavlik at that stage of his career. Even though Kelly Pavik was 17 years his Junior. This is the same reasoning as to how I personally decided to consider Wladimir Kiltschko favorite vs Anthony Joshua back in 2017. I.E Section 1.2.



I personally considered Bernard Hopkins as the favorite and was backing him to beat Jean Pascal. The reason why I considered Hopkins the favorite for me, was because overall he was a more experienced and proven fighter than Jean Pascal at that stage of his career. Even though Jean Pascal was 18 years his Junior. This is the same reasoning as to how I personally decided to consider Wladimir Kiltschko favorite vs Anthony Joshua back in 2017. I.E Section 1.2.



So you personally considered Keith Thurman as the favorite vs Manny Pacquiao.



So you considered Larry Holmes as the favorite, because he was the more experienced and proven fighter at that stage of his career vs Gerry Cooney. Even though Gerry Cooney was 8 years his junior. This is the same reasoning as to how I personally decided to consider Wladimir Kiltschko favorite vs Anthony Joshua back in 2017. I.E Section 1.2.



So you considered Floyd Mayweather as the favorite, because he was the more experienced and proven fighter at that stage of his career vs Canelo Alvarez. Even though Canelo Alvarez was 13 years his Junior. This is the same reasoning as to how I personally decided to consider Wladimir Kiltschko favorite vs Anthony Joshua back in 2017. I.E Section 1.2.



Section 1.2. This post below contains information which explains my personal reasoning as to why I considered Wladimir Kiltschko as the favorite vs Anthony Joshua in 2017. If you disagree with my reasoning, and believe that it is completely invalid then that is your prerogative.

Can you please try to be more concise instead of having a page-length post? It is a pain trying to reply to those and most is just irrelevant material or repetition. To concisely answer you, just having an age gap is not the thing...Firstly, it depends on what age the older person is. 33 yr old beating a 21 yr old is fine because both are near the peak. A 41 yr old beating 29 is a surprise because one is way past his physical peak, even though the age difference is 12 yrs in both. The second would be the caliber of the fighters. You could potentially beat a 2nd tier fighter even if you age (to some level) but not a top-tier, world champ. If you do, it is an upset rather than an expectation.

Nobody can change YOUR opinion if you fail to see the reasoning. But it just doesn't reflect reality. Because 41 yr old is way past one's physical prime by any standards and as pointed out by another poster, AJ was indeed the favorite going into that fight by most media. So, Wlad being the favorite can you YOUR opinion but not that of the majority and certainly not reasonable as well.

[PRINCEKOOL]

Nobody can change YOUR opinion if you fail to see the reasoning. But it just doesn't reflect reality.

Your original question that you posed to me in this thread, was? That you wanted to know why I personally considered Wladimir Kiltschko as the favorite vs Anthony Joshua in 2017 prior to their fight. You wanted to know HOW I PERSONALLY came to the conclusion back in 2017, of placing Wladimir Kiltschko as the favorite vs Anthony Joshua. In response to this questioning, I gave YOU a detailed explanation of my reasoning, presented evidence and statistics which consisted of career experience and feats of achievement to date which when analysed and taken into consideration? I considered to be enough evidence for me to personally place Wladimir Kiltschko as MY favorite to win the fight vs Anthony Joshua back in 2017.

Here is your original questioning below of my reasoning, as to how I personally considered Wladimir Kiltschko my personal favorite vs Anthony Joshua back in 2017.

Why would someone not think that a young boxer can beat an aging boxer? Joshua was already an Olympic gold medalist, not some random journeyman. There are levels to that because noobs do not win gold medals, do they? Why would anyone in their right mind underestimate him?

SECTION 1.2. Contains my personal explanation and reasoning as to why I considered Wladimir Kiltschko the favorite vs Anthony Joshua back in 2017. If you disagree with my reasoning, and believe that it is completely invalid then that is your prerogative.

But this same reasoning, which I used to consider Wladimir Kiltschko as the favorite vs Anthony Joshua. Is also used by thousands if not millions of boxing fans, pundits and fighters themselves to ether consider a fighter a favorite or back a certain fighter to win. In this very thread Zelda, unknowingly you have used this SAME reasoning that I was using back in 2017, in order to explain how a fighter outside of their peak according to the science which you believe 'Evening when this fighter is many years outside of their physical peak, they are still able to beat their opponents who are in their physical peak'.

Below I will highlight a section of your argument in this thread, were you are using the same reasoning that I was using back in 2017 to consider Wladimir Kiltschko the favorite vs Anthony Joshua.

To concisely answer you, just having an age gap is not the thing...Firstly, it depends on what age the older person is. 33 yr old beating a 21 yr old is fine because both are near the peak. A 41 yr old beating 29 is a surprise because one is way past his physical peak, even though the age difference is 12 yrs in both. The second would be the caliber of the fighters. You could potentially beat a 2nd tier fighter even if you age (to some level) but not a top-tier, world champ. If you do, it is an upset rather than an expectation.

In the highlighted bold section of your post up above, you are using the same reasoning that I was applying and using back in 2017 to consider Wladimir Kiltschko as my personal favorite vs Anthony Joshua.

The only way a fighter can be deemed as a top-tier fighter by anyone is by proving themselves with feats of achievement within their careers 'Their experiences and feats of achievement are the only statistical and empirical evidence that any person in the History of boxing can use to PROVE a fighter as top-tier.

This is the same reasoning which I was using back in 2017, to consider Wladimir Kiltschko as my personal favorite vs Anthony Joshua. Wladimir Kiltschko at the time of the fight was a vastly more experienced and proven fighter in comparison to Anthony Joshua. Wladimir Kiltschko was already rated as a all-time great fighter, Kiltschko was already ranked in the top-3 of all-time as a Champion with the highest consecutive titles defenses and overall the highest ranked Heavyweight of all-time achieving a total of 23 successful defenses of his titles.

Wladimir Kiltschko back in 2017 was a more proven Championship fighter than Anthony Joshua 'This was statistical and empirical historic fact'.

Even still today in 2023, there has been no Heavyweight fighter or Champion who has surpassed the level of competence as Wladimir Kiltschko as a Heavyweight Championship performer.

To concisely answer you, just having an age gap is not the thing...Firstly, it depends on what age the older person is. 33 yr old beating a 21 yr old is fine because both are near the peak. A 41 yr old beating 29 is a surprise because one is way past his physical peak, even though the age difference is 12 yrs in both.

The reason why I posted all of those fights were one fighter was outside of their apparent peak competing against another fighter in their peak. Was to prove THAT one specific statistic and parameter of the fighter cannot be considered the single most important factor when considering a fighter as a favorite or when backing a fighter to win.

Because in all of those fights, sometimes the more advanced fighter in life 'WINS'. Sometimes the more advanced fighter in life is universally considered as the favorite prior to the fight. Those fighters may go on to lose the fight against their opponents, but the fact of the matter is 'Prior to the fight happening, universally many people were considering them as the favorite to win'.

The only way people can be consider those fighters as favorites coming into those fights, or back them to win. Is by using the same reasoning as to how I personally decided to consider Wladimir Kiltschko favorite vs Anthony Joshua back in 2017. I.E Section 1.2.

Canelo Alvarez vs Floyd Mayweather Junior 'Many people ether considered Floyd Mayweather Junior to be the favorite, or were backing him to win. Even though he was competing against a Champion in Alvarez who was 13 years his junior. Floyd Mayweather Junior according to some sources of science was many years outside of his peak. The only way people prior to that fight could consider Mayweather Junior as the favorite or back him to win 'Was to take into consideration Mayweather's overall career achievements, experience that have proven him to be a great fighter. This is the same reasoning as to how I personally decided to consider Wladimir Kiltschko favorite vs Anthony Joshua back in 2017. I.E Section 1.2.

Also this is off topic, or it is not the main talking point in the thread. But the physical condition of a fighter, does not decrease in a linear fashion when they reach a certain stage in their career 'In all sports a decrease in overall conditioning is not linear'.

This can be proven by me or any person with intent, when they research and analyse athletes performances in various sports. It is not impossible for a Athlete at a more advanced stage in their life to have a higher Vo2max than another athlete many years their junior. It is not impossible for a athlete at a more advanced stage in their life, to be physically stronger and have the ability to produce a higher maximum force output, to have a greater anaerobic and Alactic endurance, or more Speed with the ability to apply a force in a shortest amount of time 'Than a athlete many years their junior'.

Below I will unequivocally prove this statement of mine to be true, from historical documented evidence.

In 1991 Carl Lewis broke the 100m World Record at the age of 31 years of age, becoming the then fastest man in documented History. Beating a field of athletes who were apparently at their physical peak according to some sources of science. Carl Lewis at that stage of his career was the oldest ever 100m World Record holder.

In 1992 Linford Christie at 32 years of age become the oldest ever 100m Olympic Champion, at the Barcelona Olympics. Beating a field of athletes who were apparently at their physical peak according to some sources of science.

In 1993 Linford Christie at 33 years of age become the second fastest man in history of the Planet running 9.87 seconds over 100m. Winning the World Championships that year in Stuttgart Germany. Beating a field of athletes who were apparently at their physical peak according to some sources of science.

In 1996 Carl Lewis won the Olympic Title in the men's Long Jump at the age of 35 years of age. Beating a field of athletes who were apparently at their physical peak according to some sources of science. Carl Lewis was unbeaten in all Olympic Long Jump Competitions starting from 1984 to 1996, and won 4 Individual Long Jump Olympic titles, in 1984, 1988, 1992 and 1996.

The Oldest ever World's Strongest man Žydrūnas Savickas won this title at 38 years of age. Savickas beat follow strongman athlete Hafthor “Thor” Bjørnson who was 14 years his junior. Bjornson who came in second place was 26 years of age at the time of the competition.

The Oldest ever Strongman Mark Felix is 57 years of age. At 57 years of age, Mark Felix qualified for the World strongest man Championship in 2023. Only 30 competitors in total are able to achieve qualification for this event. Mark Felix at the age of 57 years of age, is statistically stronger than 99.99% or 99.997% of Planet Earths entire population.

At 54 years of age Mark Felix, broke the Hercules Hold World Record. The Hercules hold requires the strongman to hold up two colossal pillars each weighing 160 kilograms in weight for as long as possible. This event is a extreme test of muscular power, overall grip strength, endurance and determination. Due to physics of the event, the two pillars are effectively attempting to pull the competitor apart on a physical and atomic level. The Athlete who can overcome and endure the psychological and physical torment of being pulled apart by the colossal pillars, is the Strongman Athlete who will win.

At 54 years of age, Mark Felix in 2019 broke the Hercules Hold World Record. This performance is still the World Record today in 2023 'No Human in documented History has surpassed this marker of performance within this particular event'.

To concisely answer you, just having an age gap is not the thing...Firstly, it depends on what age the older person is. 33 yr old beating a 21 yr old is fine because both are near the peak. A 41 yr old beating 29 is a surprise because one is way past his physical peak, even though the age difference is 12 yrs in both.

As you can see from the information up above, it is not scientifically impossible for a athlete at a more advance stage in their life to be Stronger, faster and in overall better condition than a athlete many years their junior. Athletes don't deteriorate at linear rate, that has been proven by me in this thread and the athletes themselves who have produced these magnificent performances in various sporting disciplines 'Including in the sport of boxing'.

Any person who works in the field of science or who studies science will know? That science fundamentally is always trying to disapprove itself. And it has time and time again throughout centuries of human and scientific exploration disproved itself 'And as a result, what was thought to be scientific fact was proven to be not true or inaccurate'.

In the early 1600's at-least in the Western World, Science considered Newtonian Physics to be the best and most accurate stable measurement of the laws of Motion and Gravity. Newtonian Physics which can also be called Classical Mechanics, is the description of the mechanical events that happen within physical reality that involve forces acting upon matter, using the Laws of Motion and Gravitation that were formulated in the late Seventeenth Century.

By the 19th Century Newtonian physics, Classical Mechanics was proven not to be entirely accurate due to the discovery of Quanta, Atoms and The Theory of Special Relativity.

The reason why I am making these points, is because what people are trying to claim as fact is not always entirely accurate or linear, and what people are trying to claim as impossible is not always a certainty in life 'Because there is only one constant in life, and that is Change'.

Conclusion: On this thread Zelda has attempted to prove that my reasoning to consider Wladimir Kiltschko as my personal favorite vs Anthony Joshua in 2017 'To be completely invalid'. I believe on this thread in response to this questioning, I have proven that my reasoning was a completely valid and coherent process. My reasoning is a valid and coherent process that has been used throughout history by individuals since people have debated and analysed the Sport of Prize fighting.

Zelda as a individual and a boxing fan, is 100% entitled to have his beliefs and viewpoints. Zelda as a individual and boxing fan, is 100% entitled to question anything he disagree's with.

And I myself, I am entitled 1000% to question those who oppose and defend my beliefs and reasoning when subjected to scrutiny. Because when a individual is subjected to this scrutiny, by another individual or many 'And that individual defends themselves and their beliefs, displaying the courage to endure'. It is during these moments that people think, it is during these moments that people ask themselves 'What if'.

What if? What they claim as a fact is not true or entirely accurate. What if? What they claim to be impossible, can be achieved.

We have observed and witnessed it time and time again in history of our planet 'Sometimes what they claim is a fact, is disproved. Sometimes what is once deemed as impossible is achieved. Sometimes the odds do not predict the outcome.

In the Sport of Boxing, there have been moments in the sport were fighters achieve what the then majority perceived as impossible. And in the entirety of life, these circumstances and events will always potentially happen, for as long as people defend themselves, their beliefs and have the courage to endure when subjected scrutiny or attack.

I have nothing much more to state on this thread. As I believe I have proven, what I wanted to prove.


Section 1.2. This post below contains information which explains my personal reasoning as to why I considered Wladimir Kiltschko as the favorite vs Anthony Joshua in 2017. If you disagree with my reasoning, and believe that it is completely invalid then that is your prerogative.

My original point was that Anthony Joshua beat and faced a better version of Wladimir Kiltschko than Tyson Fury. And I have posted statistics and evidence to back this up 'You in comparison are just using generalizations, cliches, lies and subjective opinion'.

Why would I consider Wladimir Kiltschko as a favorite vs Anthony Joshua at the time when they fought? Because Wladimir Kiltschko was a vastly more experienced and proven fighter than Joshua 'I will regurgitate the historic information and evidence which proves that statement of mine correct.

You have posted no facts, no statistics and no evidence 'And you are continuing to lie and make things up, I have not ran from any questions. I have answered your questions, and backed up my points with evidence, thus proving my points.

What made Wladimir Kiltschko a vastly more experienced and proven fighter than Anthony Joshua? Wladimir Kiltschko fought 134 amateur fights winning 128 of those bouts and losing only 6. During his amateur career Kiltschko also won the Olympic Title maximizing his potential.

In the professional ranks Kiltschko participated in 68 professional fights at the time he fought Joshua. 26 of those fights were Championship fights, which means? Wladimir Kiltschko fought in 26 fights were he was ether Champion, or fighting for a World title.

Wladimir Kiltschko achieved 23 successful defenses of his World titles, and had fought 26 Championship fights in total. Wladimir Kiltschko has achieved the 3rd highest consecutive number of Championship defenses in the History of Heavyweight boxing with 18 Championship defenses 'Only Larry Holmes and Joe Louis have achieve more consecutive title defenses'.

But statistically as a whole, Wladimir Kiltschko when you combine all of his title fight wins 'Has achieved the highest number of Heavyweight Championship defenses in the entire documented History of Heavyweight Boxing'.

Anthony Joshua in comparison at that stage of his career, had competed in a total of 3 Championship fights as a professional. And as a Amateur Joshua competed in a number of 43 bouts, winning 40 of those fights 'During his amateur career Joshua also won the Olympic title'. Joshua had only competed in a total of 18 professional fights, on the eve of his fight vs Wladimir Kiltschko.

These statistics and evidence, is the reason why I would and did consider Wladimir Kiltschko to be the favorite vs Anthony Joshua 'Because as you can see? The evidence clearly shows that Kiltschko was a vastly more experienced and proven fighter than Joshua'.

Wladimir Kiltschko was denied the opportunity to win back his titles vs Tyson Fury 'So claiming that he was a yesteryear fighter is not a proven fact. Wladimir Kiltschko as a boxer had won every single rematch he had ever fought in during his career to date 'Hypothetically speaking there was a possibility that he could of beaten Tyson Fury, if Fury would of actually fought in their rematch'.

Why do I believe Wladimir Kiltschko was in better condition for Anthony Joshua compared to Tyson Fury? The reason why I believe Kiltschko was in better condition for Joshua, than Tyson Fury is because 'Kiltschko had to endure three back to back training camps before fighting Joshua. The reason why Kiltschko had to endure 3 back to back training camps is because Tyson Fury unfortunately kept pulling out of their rematch. These historic facts also prove that Wladimir Kiltschko never retired, or was never in semi-retirement like you stated which WAS one of your lies.

What evidence is there which proves Kiltschko was in better condition more optimally prepared for Joshua compared to Fury? Wladimir Kiltschko weighed in at 240 pounds vs Anthony Joshua, compared to 245 pounds vs Tyson Fury. This statistics can be used to prove that he was in objectively better condition. Kiltschko is a man of science and a expert in his field, and by his own estimations he has stated the version of himself who fought Anthony Joshua was in BETTER condition than the version of himself that fought Tyson Fury 17 months prior.

Aesthetically Kiltschko was visually in better condition for Joshua, and the numbers also add more evidence to his overall improved conditioning.

It is also not scientifically impossible for a athlete at that stage of Kiltschko's career to improve their overall fitness in a 17 month period 'In comparison to the version of themselves 17 months prior. The evidence which proves this belief of mine as truth is common universal knowledge within physical science.

Athletes or people don't just reach a certain stage in their careers, were their deterioration in overall fitness becomes linear. An example which again proves my point, is that Mike Tyson before he planned to fight Roy Jones Junior in a exhibition 'Mike Tyson had to improve his overall fitness and conditioning'.

The Mike Tyson who fought Roy Jones Junior in a exhibition, was categorically in better condition and was a better fighter 'Than the Mike Tyson at the start of his training camp'. And this can only be possible if? A fighter or athlete can improve their conditioning and individual components of fitness, even at that advance stage in their life 'During that time period'.

Note: I believe I have made my points very clear, and I have backed up my points with evidence and statistics. The only way this debate is going to continue, is if you decide to subjectively disagree with me. Because you have still yet to post any evidence or statistics to counter my points. This information presented here, will just be regurgitated within this debate, I have stated all that has needed to stated at this point etc.