Comments Thread For: Anthony Joshua: I Need to Get My Fighting Spirit Back, Push Myself Again; It's Going to Be Tough

[PRINCEKOOL]

I don't know what you're ****ing about...I mentioned exactly what I said and why I said that.


You haven't refuted a single thing because you cannot. You know those are facts that I stated. You keep repeating how experienced Klitschko is...Have you seen me question his experience? But we're all humans and humans do age. After a certain time, more mileage on the body is a bad thing rather than a good thing, particularly in combat sports. No amount of experience will make your 40+ year old body transform into a 22-23 yr old.

If he was in such good physical condition and in his prime which you say, why was AJ his last fight?

Another question...how many HW champions do you know at the age he fought AJ, other than Foreman? Vitali but he too fought his last fight at 41 and against Charr. I am sure all other HW too would be very experienced by age 41.

Beating a 41-year-old is not some upset. Even greats like Ali, Holmes, Tyson, Lewis, Holifield, etc. weren't champs at that age. Klitschko was a good boxer and gave a good fight. He had a great career but AJ wasn't fighting a Klitschko at the top of his career. He fought him at the END of his career, after he had a loss (he was schooled by Fury), 1.5 years of no fights, and 41 yrs of age. So, why would someone think AJ did not have a chance of beating him?

I don't need to refute anything you have stated, because the points you are making are completely pointless 'Completely and utterly useless'.

You are telling me at what stage a fighter is in their career, and then just dismissing their ability on that one statistic 'That is not now you disprove ME, or prove your points mate'. You prove yourself with objective real time facts, which back up performances.

Nobody is claiming that Kiltschko was at his peak vs Joshua 'But there is definitive evidence out there, that he was in better condition more optimally prepared for Joshua, than he was for Tyson Fury'.

Wladimir Kiltschko was not at his peak for ether Fury or Joshua, but in my opinion from what I saw? He was in better condition more better prepared for Joshua 'I say these things, because those are Kiltschko's own beliefs. The Champion for close to a decade, those are his own estimations and beliefs 'A man of science who is a expert in his field'.

The Kiltschko that Anthony Joshua faced was in better condition, than the version of himself 17 months prior 'Kiltschko was 240 pounds vs Joshua, vs 245 pounds vs Fury'.

Tyson Fury's win vs Wladimir Kiltschko then is also according to you 'Not a good win, and not a big victory for Fury'. Kiltschko was only 17 months older, and as I have said according to his own estimations in better condition and more optimally prepared for Joshua'.

Both wins are crap wins then for Fury and Joshua mate, by your reasoning.

Do you agree with that 'Do you agree then by your reasoning that Tyson Fury's win vs Kiltschko is a crap win?

I am telling you objective facts, ON performance 'I am not just going on about cliches that are not scientifically correct'. No matter how much you think WHAT you are saying is right 'It is not mate'. So it is completely pointless references past fighters.

An Athlete at the stage of Wladimir Kiltschko's career back when he fought Joshua 'Can scientifically be in better conditioning, than the version of himself 17 months prior. This is not impossible, and the statistics from that fight prove what I am saying? Which is that Anthony Joshua beat a better version of Kiltschko than Tyson Fury.

Wladimir Kiltschko himself stated he was in better condition, and also the fact that he weighed in at a solid 240 pounds a full 5 pounds lighter than he was vs Fury 'Is more evidence that backs up my belief surrounding that fight'.

Note: You continue to make things up mate, nobody said that Kiltschko was at his peak 'But there is definitive 1000% evidence, that Kiltschko was in better condition for Anthony Joshua than he was for Tyson Fury 'That is my point, and you have not disproved it'. It is not scientifically impossible, for a athlete at the stage of Kiltschko's career to be in better condition than the version of himself 17 months prior'.

It is not impossible for any person, to improve their overall fitness in a 17 month period at the same stage in life as Kiltschko 'That is a 1000% fact'. That is a scientific fact mate, and nobody that you know in your life can disagree and disprove what I say as not truth.

I don't even have to go in depth on the science, because it is obvious. There are people who are not even athletes at a far more advance stage of their life than Kiltschko, who decide complete in marathon running 'This is very common in the fitness industry'.

And in order for that person to compete or complete a marathon 'They will have to improve their overall aerobic capacity and Vo2max'. There is no other scientific way, in which they can go from NOT running marathons to being able to complete a marathon without improving their overall fitness.

What is Vo2max: Vo2max is the capacity for a person to use oxygen to produce ENERGY for exercise. This specific measurement of fitness is universally scientifically recognized as the single best most accurate measurement of overall cardiovascular fitness and aerobic endurance.

I want you to understand what I am saying very accurate 'The version of Kiltschko that fought Tyson Fury, was not in better condition than the Kiltschko who fought Joshua. That is what I am saying mate, and that is my belief from the evidence that I have saw and Kiltschko's own estimations'.

I am not claiming that Kiltschko was at his peak, because he was not at his peak 'But Wladimir Kiltschko for me was in a better more optimal prepared version of himself than 17 months prior vs Tyson Fury. Anthony Joshua beat a better version of Wladimir Kiltschko' etc.

[Zelda]

I don't need to refute anything you have stated, because the points you are making are completely pointless 'Completely and utterly useless'.

You are telling me at what stage a fighter is in their career, and then just dismissing their ability on that one statistic 'That is not now you disprove ME, or prove your points mate'. You prove yourself with objective real time facts, which back up performances.

Nobody is claiming that Kiltschko was at his peak vs Joshua 'But there is definitive evidence out there, that he was in better condition more optimally prepared for Joshua, than he was for Tyson Fury'.

Wladimir Kiltschko was not at his peak for ether Fury or Joshua, but in my opinion from what I saw? He was in better condition more better prepared for Joshua 'I say these things, because those are Kiltschko's own beliefs. The Champion for close to a decade, those are his own estimations and beliefs 'A man of science who is a expert in his field'.

The Kiltschko that Anthony Joshua faced was in better condition, than the version of himself 17 months prior 'Kiltschko was 240 pounds vs Joshua, vs 245 pounds vs Fury'.

Tyson Fury's win vs Wladimir Kiltschko then is also according to you 'Not a good win, and not a big victory for Fury'. Kiltschko was only 17 months older, and as I have said according to his own estimations in better condition and more optimally prepared for Joshua'.

Both wins are crap wins then for Fury and Joshua mate, by your reasoning.

Do you agree with that 'Do you agree then by your reasoning that Tyson Fury's win vs Kiltschko is a crap win?

I am telling you objective facts, ON performance 'I am not just going on about cliches that are not scientifically correct'. No matter how much you think WHAT you are saying is right 'It is not mate'. So it is completely pointless references past fighters.

An Athlete at the stage of Wladimir Kiltschko's career back when he fought Joshua 'Can scientifically be in better conditioning, than the version of himself 17 months prior. This is not impossible, and the statistics from that fight prove what I am saying? Which is that Anthony Joshua beat a better version of Kiltschko than Tyson Fury.

Wladimir Kiltschko himself stated he was in better condition, and also the fact that he weighed in at a solid 240 pounds a full 5 pounds lighter than he was vs Fury 'Is more evidence that backs up my belief surrounding that fight'.

Note: You continue to make things up mate, nobody said that Kiltschko was at his peak 'But there is definitive 1000% evidence, that Kiltschko was in better condition for Anthony Joshua than he was for Tyson Fury 'That is my point, and you have not disproved it'. It is not scientifically impossible, for a athlete at the stage of Kiltschko's career to be in better condition than the version of himself 17 months prior'.

It is not impossible for any person, to improve their overall fitness in a 17 month period at the same stage in life as Kiltschko 'That is a 1000% fact'. That is a scientific fact mate, and nobody that you know in your life can disagree and disprove what I say as not truth.

I don't even have to go in depth on the science, because it is obvious. There are people who are not even athletes at a far more advance stage of their life than Kiltschko, who decide complete in marathon running 'This is very common in the fitness industry'.

And in order for that person to compete or complete a marathon 'They will have to improve their overall aerobic capacity and Vo2max'. There is no other scientific way, in which they can go from NOT running marathons to being able to complete a marathon without improving their overall fitness.

What is Vo2max: Vo2max is the capacity for a person to use oxygen to produce ENERGY for exercise. This specific measurement of fitness is universally scientifically recognized as the single best most accurate measurement of overall cardiovascular fitness and aerobic endurance.

I want you to understand what I am saying very accurate 'The version of Kiltschko that fought Tyson Fury, was not in better condition than the Kiltschko who fought Joshua. That is what I am saying mate, and that is my belief from the evidence that I have saw and Kiltschko's own estimations'.

I am not claiming that Kiltschko was at his peak, because he was not at his peak 'But Wladimir Kiltschko for me was in a better more optimal prepared version of himself than 17 months prior vs Tyson Fury. Anthony Joshua beat a better version of Wladimir Kiltschko' etc.

You really do specialize in dodging questions when you do not have answers and start irrelevant discussions. You filled me with half a page trying to divert the argument. Tell us why this "better condition", "scientific evidence" of how 40+ old athletes somehow get better because it is "common in the industry", better Vo2max so that he could produce better energy from oxygen, etc, etc. not fight after AJ? I mean..come on..everything was going for him as you put it...so why did he retire? And how many other HW in history have used this genius scientific fact of yours to win titles after 41 other than Foreman?

The version that fought Fury also lost so that is not a very good comparison. In fact, he was schooled by Fury but that is another story. Unless you're trying to imply that 17 months of lay-off brought him to his peak, it is totally irrelevant. Don't try to distract because this is not about Fury vs AJ. Fury fought an old Klitschko and AJ fought an even older one. In case you forgot, let me remind you of what you said:

Anthony Joshua has been the favorite in 99.9% of the fights he has ever fought, even when really he should not of been favorite I.E Fighting Wladimir Kilstchko in his 19th professional fight '

and my reply

Klitschko was not at that level when he fought Joshua...coming off a loss, semi-retirement, and over 40 years of age. I don't know why you would not put a young champion as the favorite over a yesteryear fighter.

Now please stick to the point.

Why would you NOT consider a strong and young world champion who is also an Olympic gold medalist and have already defended his titles twice to be competitive or even a favorite over a 41-yr old yesteryear champ coming off a loss, 1.5 yrs of inactivity, and in his last fight? Joshua would have been at the peak of his physical strength at age 27-28. How many ex-champs over 41 have ever beaten reigning champs?

[lopetego]

Joshua finally admitting what everyone can already see. He's got no heart anymore, and maybe he never did aside from the Wlad match

[PRINCEKOOL]

You really do specialize in dodging questions when you do not have answers and start irrelevant discussions. You filled me with half a page trying to divert the argument. Tell us why this "better condition", "scientific evidence" of how 40+ old athletes somehow get better because it is "common in the industry", better Vo2max so that he could produce better energy from oxygen, etc, etc. not fight after AJ? I mean..come on..everything was going for him as you put it...so why did he retire? And how many other HW in history have used this genius scientific fact of yours to win titles after 41 other than Foreman?

The version that fought Fury also lost so that is not a very good comparison. In fact, he was schooled by Fury but that is another story. Unless you're trying to imply that 17 months of lay-off brought him to his peak, it is totally irrelevant. Don't try to distract because this is not about Fury vs AJ. Fury fought an old Klitschko and AJ fought an even older one. In case you forgot, let me remind you of what you said:



and my reply



Now please stick to the point.

Why would you NOT consider a strong and young world champion who is also an Olympic gold medalist and have already defended his titles twice to be competitive or even a favorite over a 41-yr old yesteryear champ coming off a loss, 1.5 yrs of inactivity, and in his last fight? Joshua would have been at the peak of his physical strength at age 27-28. How many ex-champs over 41 have ever beaten reigning champs?

Your comprehension of what is actually happening on this thread is very low, or you are deliberately choosing not to acknowledge my point.

My point in this thread is as follows: The Wladimir Kiltschkko who Anthony Joshua faced, was in better condition than the version of Kiltschko 17 months prior who fought Tyson Fury'.

How and why do I have this belief: I have this belief from my own observations of Kiltschko, and information given by Kiltschko himself regarding his condition.

What information: Wladimir Kiltschko was 240 pounds vs Anthony Joshua, compared to weighing in at 245 pounds vs Tyson Fury. Wladimir Kiltschko who is a expert in his field of science, by his own training records and estimations was in better condition and more optimally prepared for Anthony Joshua.

What I am not claiming: I am not claiming that Wladimir Kiltscko was in his peak condition, but what I am claiming is that he was BETTER vs Anthony Joshua than the version of himself who fought Tyson Fury 17 months prior 'After enduring 3 back to back training camps, within this time period'.

Note: Wladimir Kiltschko retired because he had already achieved the maximum in his career. It is now you who is now diverting this discussion onto irrelevant topics.

What is your actual point? And what are you trying to disprove? Because I now honestly don't think it is clear 'My points are very clear, yours are not mate'.

In your next response MAKE your points very clear and exact. Reference this post of mine, and point out what you are trying to disprove, and show me the evidence disproving my beliefs 'Show me the objective statistical evidence'.

I have already showed you a statistic, and evidence backing up why I think the Kiltschko who Joshua fought was better than the Kiltschko who Fury fought 'Wladimir Kiltschko was 240 pounds solid vs Joshua, compared to 245 pounds vs Fury' etc.

You are just making things up and using generalizations to somehow try and prove or disprove whatever in this thread 'That is not how I am going about proving my points in this thread, that is why pretty much everything you are saying is completely useless'.

I have posted statistics, I have posted objective facts 'You have not'. You have lied and made things up, the first lie you tried to play off as truth was that Kiltschko was semi-retired. I disproved this by telling you, that Kiltschko was not retired 'And he had to endure 3 back to back training camps due to Tyson Fury continually pulling out of their rematch'.

All I will do from this point on-wards now, is I will continue to regurgitate the information in this thread which backs up my points.

Anthony Joshua was a inexperienced unproven fighter at the time he fought Kiltschko 'Kiltschko was a vastly more experienced and proven fighter, which has been proven by me on this thread. With facts and statistics' etc.

[Zelda]

This is getting less funny and more ridiculous.

Your comprehension of what is actually happening on this thread is very low, or you are deliberately choosing not to acknowledge my point.

My point in this thread is as follows: The Wladimir Kiltschkko who Anthony Joshua faced, was in better condition than the version of Kiltschko 17 months prior who fought Tyson Fury'.

How and why do I have this belief: I have this belief from my own observations of Kiltschko, and information given by Kiltschko himself regarding his condition.

What information: Wladimir Kiltschko was 240 pounds vs Anthony Joshua, compared to weighing in at 245 pounds vs Tyson Fury. Wladimir Kiltschko who is a expert in his field of science, by his own training records and estimations was in better condition and more optimally prepared for Anthony Joshua.

You are just running away from your own statement and changing this into "your point" because you know your original point was ridiculous. You said Joshua won against Klitschko where he should not be considered the favorite but refuse to answer why. Now, you are changing your point into something else but nobody is even debating whether a 40-yr old Klitschko was better or a 41-yr old. Why are you even discussing this here unless it is a divergence tactic?

What I am not claiming: I am not claiming that Wladimir Kiltscko was in his peak condition, but what I am claiming is that he was BETTER vs Anthony Joshua than the version of himself who fought Tyson Fury 17 months prior 'After enduring 3 back to back training camps, within this time period'.

Note: Wladimir Kiltschko retired because he had already achieved the maximum in his career. It is now you who is now diverting this discussion onto irrelevant topics.

What is your actual point? And what are you trying to disprove? Because I now honestly don't think it is clear 'My points are very clear, yours are not mate'.
In your next response MAKE your points very clear and exact. Reference this post of mine, and point out what you are trying to disprove, and show me the evidence disproving my beliefs 'Show me the objective statistical evidence'.

I have already showed you a statistic, and evidence backing up why I think the Kiltschko who Joshua fought was better than the Kiltschko who Fury fought 'Wladimir Kiltschko was 240 pounds solid vs Joshua, compared to 245 pounds vs Fury' etc.

You are just making things up and using generalizations to somehow try and prove or disprove whatever in this thread 'That is not how I am going about proving my points in this thread, that is why pretty much everything you are saying is completely useless'.

I have posted statistics, I have posted objective facts 'You have not'. You have lied and made things up, the first lie you tried to play off as truth was that Kiltschko was semi-retired. I disproved this by telling you, that Kiltschko was not retied 'And he had to endure 3 back to back training camps due to Tyson Fury continually pulling out of their rematch'.

All I will do from this point on wards now, is I will continue to regurgitate the information in this thread which backs up my points.

My point is consistent and exactly what I said in my first post and also quoted in my last post, "I don't know why you would not put a young champion as the favorite over a yesteryear fighter."

You started debating with me on how 3 back-to-back trainings are awesome but unless you believe they brought him to his peak performance, you still haven't answered the question of why would you consider a 41-yr old ex-champ, coming off a loss, and no fights in 1.5 yrs to be a favorite over a reigning and active champ with two title defenses and who is also Olympic gold medalist?

It is a simple one-point discussion highlighted in red font above.

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

You don`t have to be his advocate, he doesn`t mind what you think either.

Point is, Fury is more in denial than Joshua. Yeah, sure beating Chisora proves he is N.1.

Fury isn’t relevant to the thread.

You’re consumed by Tyson Fury. Let it go.

[PRINCEKOOL]

This is getting less funny and more ridiculous.



You are just running away from your own statement and changing this into "your point" because you know your original point was ridiculous. You said Joshua won against Klitschko where he should not be considered the favorite but refuse to answer why. Now, you are changing your point into something else but nobody is even debating whether a 40-yr old Klitschko was better or a 41-yr old. Why are you even discussing this here unless it is a divergence tactic?




My point is consistent and exactly what I said in my first post and also quoted in my last post, "I don't know why you would not put a young champion as the favorite over a yesteryear fighter."

You started debating with me on how 3 back-to-back trainings are awesome but unless you believe they brought him to his peak performance, you still haven't answered the question of why would you consider a 41-yr old ex-champ, coming off a loss, and no fights in 1.5 yrs to be a favorite over a reigning and active champ with two title defenses and who is also Olympic gold medalist?

It is a simple one-point discussion highlighted in red font above.

My original point was that Anthony Joshua beat and faced a better version of Wladimir Kiltschko than Tyson Fury. And I have posted statistics and evidence to back this up 'You in comparison are just using generalizations, cliches, lies and subjective opinion'.

Why would I consider Wladimir Kiltschko as a favorite vs Anthony Joshua at the time when they fought? Because Wladimir Kiltschko was a vastly more experienced and proven fighter than Joshua 'I will regurgitate the historic information and evidence which proves that statement of mine correct.

You have posted no facts, no statistics and no evidence 'And you are continuing to lie and make things up, I have not ran from any questions. I have answered your questions, and backed up my points with evidence, thus proving my points.

What made Wladimir Kiltschko a vastly more experienced and proven fighter than Anthony Joshua? Wladimir Kiltschko fought 134 amateur fights winning 128 of those bouts and losing only 6. During his amateur career Kiltschko also won the Olympic Title maximizing his potential.

In the professional ranks Kiltschko participated in 68 professional fights at the time he fought Joshua. 26 of those fights were Championship fights, which means? Wladimir Kiltschko fought in 26 fights were he was ether Champion, or fighting for a World title.

Wladimir Kiltschko achieved 23 successful defenses of his World titles, and had fought 26 Championship fights in total. Wladimir Kiltschko has achieved the 3rd highest consecutive number of Championship defenses in the History of Heavyweight boxing with 18 Championship defenses 'Only Larry Holmes and Joe Louis have achieve more consecutive title defenses'.

But statistically as a whole, Wladimir Kiltschko when you combine all of his title fight wins 'Has achieved the highest number of Heavyweight Championship defenses in the entire documented History of Heavyweight Boxing'.

Anthony Joshua in comparison at that stage of his career, had competed in a total of 3 Championship fights as a professional. And as a Amateur Joshua competed in a number of 43 bouts, winning 40 of those fights 'During his amateur career Joshua also won the Olympic title'. Joshua had only competed in a total of 18 professional fights, on the eve of his fight vs Wladimir Kiltschko.

These statistics and evidence, is the reason why I would and did consider Wladimir Kiltschko to be the favorite vs Anthony Joshua 'Because as you can see? The evidence clearly shows that Kiltschko was a vastly more experienced and proven fighter than Joshua'.

Wladimir Kiltschko was denied the opportunity to win back his titles vs Tyson Fury 'So claiming that he was a yesteryear fighter is not a proven fact. Wladimir Kiltschko as a boxer had won every single rematch he had ever fought in during his career to date 'Hypothetically speaking there was a possibility that he could of beaten Tyson Fury, if Fury would of actually fought in their rematch'.

Why do I believe Wladimir Kiltschko was in better condition for Anthony Joshua compared to Tyson Fury? The reason why I believe Kiltschko was in better condition for Joshua, than Tyson Fury is because 'Kiltschko had to endure three back to back training camps before fighting Joshua. The reason why Kiltschko had to endure 3 back to back training camps is because Tyson Fury unfortunately kept pulling out of their rematch. These historic facts also prove that Wladimir Kiltschko never retired, or was never in semi-retirement like you stated which WAS one of your lies.

What evidence is there which proves Kiltschko was in better condition more optimally prepared for Joshua compared to Fury? Wladimir Kiltschko weighed in at 240 pounds vs Anthony Joshua, compared to 245 pounds vs Tyson Fury. This statistics can be used to prove that he was in objectively better condition. Kiltschko is a man of science and a expert in his field, and by his own estimations he has stated the version of himself who fought Anthony Joshua was in BETTER condition than the version of himself that fought Tyson Fury 17 months prior.

Aesthetically Kiltschko was visually in better condition for Joshua, and the numbers also add more evidence to his overall improved conditioning.

It is also not scientifically impossible for a athlete at that stage of Kiltschko's career to improve their overall fitness in a 17 month period 'In comparison to the version of themselves 17 months prior. The evidence which proves this belief of my as truth is common universal knowledge within physical science.

Athletes or people don't just reach a certain stage in their careers, were their deterioration in overall fitness becomes linear. A example which again proves my point, is that Mike Tyson before he planned to fight Roy Jones Junior in a exhibition 'Mike Tyson had to improve his overall fitness and conditioning'.

The Mike Tyson who fought Roy Jones Junior in a exhibition, was categorically in better condition and was a better fighter 'Than the Mike Tyson at the start of his training camp'. And this can only be possible if? A fighter or athlete can improve their conditioning and individual components of fitness, even at that advance stage in their life 'During that time period'.

Note: I believe I have made my points very clear, and I have backed up my points with evidence and statistics. The only way this debate is going to continue, is if you decide to subjectively disagree with me. Because you have still yet to post any evidence or statistics to counter my points. This information presented here, will just be regurgitated within this debate, I have stated all that has needed to stated at this point etc.

[Zelda]

My original point was that Anthony Joshua beat and faced a better version of Wladimir Kiltschko than Tyson Fury. And I have posted statistics and evidence to back this up 'You in comparison are just using generalizations, cliches, lies and subjective opinion'.

Why would I consider Wladimir Kiltschko as a favorite vs Anthony Joshua at the time when they fought? Because Wladimir Kiltschko was a vastly more experienced and proven fighter than Joshua 'I will regurgitate the historic information and evidence which proves that statement of mine correct.

You have posted no facts, no statistics and no evidence 'And you are continuing to lie and make things up, I have not ran from any questions. I have answered your questions, and backed up my points with evidence, thus proving my points.

What made Wladimir Kiltschko a vastly more experienced and proven fighter than Anthony Joshua? Wladimir Kiltschko fought 134 amateur fights winning 128 of those bouts and losing only 6. During his amateur career Kiltschko also won the Olympic Title maximizing his potential.

In the professional ranks Kiltschko participated in 68 professional fights at the time he fought Joshua. 26 of those fights were Championship fights, which means? Wladimir Kiltschko fought in 26 fights were he was ether Champion, or fighting for a World title.

Wladimir Kiltschko achieved 23 successful defenses of his World titles, and had fought 26 Championship fights in total. Wladimir Kiltschko has achieved the 3rd highest consecutive number of Championship defenses in the History of Heavyweight boxing with 18 Championship defenses 'Only Larry Holmes and Joe Louis have achieve more consecutive title defenses'.

But statistically as a whole, Wladimir Kiltschko when you combine all of his title fight wins 'Has achieved the highest number of Heavyweight Championship defenses in the entire documented History of Heavyweight Boxing'.

Anthony Joshua in comparison at that stage of his career, had competed in a total of 3 Championship fights as a professional. And as a Amateur Joshua competed in a number of 43 bouts, winning 40 of those fights 'During his amateur career Joshua also won the Olympic title'. Joshua had only competed in a total of 18 professional fights, on the eve of his fight vs Wladimir Kiltschko.

These statistics and evidence, is the reason why I would and did consider Wladimir Kiltschko to be the favorite vs Anthony Joshua 'Because as you can see? The evidence clearly shows that Kiltschko was a vastly more experienced and proven fighter than Joshua'.

Wladimir Kiltschko was denied the opportunity to win back his titles vs Tyson Fury 'So claiming that he was a yesteryear fighter is not a proven fact. Wladimir Kiltschko as a boxer had won every single rematch he had ever fought in during his career to date 'Hypothetically speaking there was a possibility that he could of beaten Tyson Fury, if Fury would of actually fought in their rematch'.

So what you saying is that Wladimir should be the favorite because he had more experience. Almost every 40+ yr old fighter would be more experienced than a younger fighter in their 20s. Yet, statistically, there has only been one HW (Foreman) to have beaten a younger champion. So, it is pretty much evident that the drawbacks of aging are much more than the advantage of experience. Otherwise, we would have had many "experienced" boxers beating younger ones. Here you go with the facts and statistics.

Tyson, Ali, Holmes, Holyfield, Roy, etc. were all more experienced fighters in their late 30s but started losing to younger fighters. And they were top fighters, legends. Why? They were winning in their 20s when they were less experienced but losing in their late 30s when they were more experienced. Because the body has its limits and aging starts showing its effects. As you start crossing your early to mid-30s, you start losing your strength, agility, endurance, and punch resistance i.e., your overall physical attributes. There might be statistical deviation which is why it is a range but most research puts it between 25-30 with some going into early 30s. This is medically proven and I can give you ample references for that, for instance [1], [2],[3]. This chart, which also contains some other things in life, also shows when your muscle, endurance, and bone mass tend to peak. These are averages but even with a standard deviation you get the hallmark figure.

Peak performance.png

So, to claim Klitschko was a favorite because he had more experience but ignoring the fact that he was 41 yr old is ridiculous. And the entire history of HW boxing is there to prove that with one exception. The only time your argument would make sense is if a peak Klitschko was fight AJ and we can compare their pedigree and experience. But that is not the case. And old Klitschko was fighting a peak Joshua.

[1] https://jacksonhealth.org/2017-06-29...%20your%20life.
[2] https://www.rd.com/list/best-ages-in-life/
[3] https://www.sciencealert.com/here-ar...hroughout-life

Why do I believe Wladimir Kiltschko was in better condition for Anthony Joshua compared to Tyson Fury? The reason why I believe Kiltschko was in better condition for Joshua, than Tyson Fury is because 'Kiltschko had to endure three back to back training camps before fighting Joshua. The reason why Kiltschko had to endure 3 back to back training camps is because Tyson Fury unfortunately kept pulling out of their rematch. These historic facts also prove that Wladimir Kiltschko never retired, or was never in semi-retirement like you stated which WAS one of your lies.

What evidence is there which proves Kiltschko was in better condition more optimally prepared for Joshua compared to Fury? Wladimir Kiltschko weighed in at 240 pounds vs Anthony Joshua, compared to 245 pounds vs Tyson Fury. This statistics can be used to prove that he was in objectively better condition. Kiltschko is a man of science and a expert in his field, and by his own estimations he has stated the version of himself who fought Anthony Joshua was in BETTER condition than the version of himself that fought Tyson Fury 17 months prior.

Aesthetically Kiltschko was visually in better condition for Joshua, and the numbers also add more evidence to his overall improved conditioning.

It is also not scientifically impossible for a athlete at that stage of Kiltschko's career to improve their overall fitness in a 17 month period 'In comparison to the version of themselves 17 months prior. The evidence which proves this belief of my as truth is common universal knowledge within physical science.

Athletes or people don't just reach a certain stage in their careers, were their deterioration in overall fitness becomes linear. A example which again proves my point, is that Mike Tyson before he planned to fight Roy Jones Junior in a exhibition 'Mike Tyson had to improve his overall fitness and conditioning'.

The Mike Tyson who fought Roy Jones Junior in a exhibition, was categorically in better condition and was a better fighter 'Then the Mike Tyson at the start of his training camp'. And this can only be possible if? A fighter or athlete can improve their conditioning and individual components of fitness, even at that advance stage in their life 'During that time period'.

Note: I believe I have made my points very clear, and I have backed up my points with evidence and statistics. The only way this debate is going to continue, is if you decide to subjectively disagree with me. Because you have still yet to post any evidence or statistics to counter my points. This information presented here, will just be regurgitated within this debate, I have stated all that has needed to stated at this point etc.

You fill in pages with irrelevant stuff on why Klitschko is more experienced or how the training camp went. Am I even debating that or did I say he had a bad camp? Why are you trying to shift it to something I am not even arguing?

[PRINCEKOOL]

So what you saying is that Wladimir should be the favorite because he had more experience. Almost every 40+ yr old fighter would be more experienced than a younger fighter in their 20s. Yet, statistically, there has only been one HW (Foreman) to have beaten a younger champion. So, it is pretty much evident that the drawbacks of aging are much more than the advantage of experience. Otherwise, we would have had many "experienced" boxers beating younger ones. Here you go with the facts and statistics.

Tyson, Ali, Holmes, Holyfield, Roy, etc. were all more experienced fighters in their late 30s but started losing to younger fighters. And they were top fighters, legends. Why? They were winning in their 20s when they were less experienced but losing in their late 30s when they were more experienced. Because the body has its limits and aging starts showing its effects. As you start crossing your early to mid-30s, you start losing your strength, agility, endurance, and punch resistance i.e., your overall physical attributes. There might be statistical deviation which is why it is a range but most research puts it between 25-30 with some going into early 30s. This is medically proven and I can give you ample references for that, for instance [1], [2],[3]. This chart, which also contains some other things in life, also shows when your muscle, endurance, and bone mass tend to peak. These are averages but even with a standard deviation you get the hallmark figure.

Peak performance.png

So, to claim Klitschko was a favorite because he had more experience but ignoring the fact that he was 41 yr old is ridiculous. And the entire history of HW boxing is there to prove that with one exception. The only time your argument would make sense is if a peak Klitschko was fight AJ and we can compare their pedigree and experience. But that is not the case. And old Klitschko was fighting a peak Joshua.

[1] https://jacksonhealth.org/2017-06-29...%20your%20life.
[2] https://www.rd.com/list/best-ages-in-life/
[3] https://www.sciencealert.com/here-ar...hroughout-life




You fill in pages with irrelevant stuff on why Klitschko is more experienced or how the training camp went. Am I even debating that or did I say he had a bad camp? Why are you trying to shift it to something I am not even arguing?

You have asked me for my personal reasons as to why, I considered Wladimir Kiltschko as the favorite vs Anthony Joshua. And I have just presented to you, statistics, evidence and historic facts to back up my beliefs and points 'If you disagree with them, then that is your prerogative'.

But now judging by your reasoning, I want to ask you a few questions 'And you are going to answer them'.

If you truly believe with 1000% conviction that 1 fighter should be a favorite vs another just because of how advance they are in life 'And from that one statistic you should just dismiss the achievements and experience of that fighter coming into the fight'.

'Then everyone reading this thread, should be able to guess how you will answer all of these questions below. You should answer 'YES' to all of these questions below.

If you don't answer yes for all of these questions below, THEN I have basically proven that you don't believe the things you are saying 'Because in order for you to answer 'NO' to these questions, YOU would have to adopt the same reasoning that I was using at the time when Wladimir Kiltschko fought Anthony Joshua'.

You would have to be taking into consideration the experience and overall achievements of the fighter, at that point in time of the fight.

Did you considered Tyson Fury as the favorite vs Wladimir Kilstchko?

Did you considered David Haye as the favorite vs Wladimir Kiltschko?

Did you considered Byrant Jennings the favorite vs Wladimir Kiltschko?

Would you have considered Leon Spinks in his two fights vs Muhammad Ali the favorite?

Did you considered Kelly Pavlik as the favorite vs Bernard Hopkins?

Did you considered Jean Pascal the favorite vs Bernard Hopkins twice?

Did you considered Keith Thurman the favorite vs Manny Pacquiao?

Would you have considered Gerry Cooney the favorite vs Larry Holmes?

Did you considered Canelo Alvarez the favorite vs Floyd Mayweather Junior?

Note: Below I will post again my reasons as to why I personally had Wladimir Kiltschko as the favorite vs Anthony Joshua:

My original point was that Anthony Joshua beat and faced a better version of Wladimir Kiltschko than Tyson Fury. And I have posted statistics and evidence to back this up 'You in comparison are just using generalizations, cliches, lies and subjective opinion'.

Why would I consider Wladimir Kiltschko as a favorite vs Anthony Joshua at the time when they fought? Because Wladimir Kiltschko was a vastly more experienced and proven fighter than Joshua 'I will regurgitate the historic information and evidence which proves that statement of mine correct.

You have posted no facts, no statistics and no evidence 'And you are continuing to lie and make things up, I have not ran from any questions. I have answered your questions, and backed up my points with evidence, thus proving my points.

What made Wladimir Kiltschko a vastly more experienced and proven fighter than Anthony Joshua? Wladimir Kiltschko fought 134 amateur fights winning 128 of those bouts and losing only 6. During his amateur career Kiltschko also won the Olympic Title maximizing his potential.

In the professional ranks Kiltschko participated in 68 professional fights at the time he fought Joshua. 26 of those fights were Championship fights, which means? Wladimir Kiltschko fought in 26 fights were he was ether Champion, or fighting for a World title.

Wladimir Kiltschko achieved 23 successful defenses of his World titles, and had fought 26 Championship fights in total. Wladimir Kiltschko has achieved the 3rd highest consecutive number of Championship defenses in the History of Heavyweight boxing with 18 Championship defenses 'Only Larry Holmes and Joe Louis have achieve more consecutive title defenses'.

But statistically as a whole, Wladimir Kiltschko when you combine all of his title fight wins 'Has achieved the highest number of Heavyweight Championship defenses in the entire documented History of Heavyweight Boxing'.

Anthony Joshua in comparison at that stage of his career, had competed in a total of 3 Championship fights as a professional. And as a Amateur Joshua competed in a number of 43 bouts, winning 40 of those fights 'During his amateur career Joshua also won the Olympic title'. Joshua had only competed in a total of 18 professional fights, on the eve of his fight vs Wladimir Kiltschko.

These statistics and evidence, is the reason why I would and did consider Wladimir Kiltschko to be the favorite vs Anthony Joshua 'Because as you can see? The evidence clearly shows that Kiltschko was a vastly more experienced and proven fighter than Joshua'.

Wladimir Kiltschko was denied the opportunity to win back his titles vs Tyson Fury 'So claiming that he was a yesteryear fighter is not a proven fact. Wladimir Kiltschko as a boxer had won every single rematch he had ever fought in during his career to date 'Hypothetically speaking there was a possibility that he could of beaten Tyson Fury, if Fury would of actually fought in their rematch'.

Why do I believe Wladimir Kiltschko was in better condition for Anthony Joshua compared to Tyson Fury? The reason why I believe Kiltschko was in better condition for Joshua, than Tyson Fury is because 'Kiltschko had to endure three back to back training camps before fighting Joshua. The reason why Kiltschko had to endure 3 back to back training camps is because Tyson Fury unfortunately kept pulling out of their rematch. These historic facts also prove that Wladimir Kiltschko never retired, or was never in semi-retirement like you stated which WAS one of your lies.

What evidence is there which proves Kiltschko was in better condition more optimally prepared for Joshua compared to Fury? Wladimir Kiltschko weighed in at 240 pounds vs Anthony Joshua, compared to 245 pounds vs Tyson Fury. This statistics can be used to prove that he was in objectively better condition. Kiltschko is a man of science and a expert in his field, and by his own estimations he has stated the version of himself who fought Anthony Joshua was in BETTER condition than the version of himself that fought Tyson Fury 17 months prior.

Aesthetically Kiltschko was visually in better condition for Joshua, and the numbers also add more evidence to his overall improved conditioning.

It is also not scientifically impossible for a athlete at that stage of Kiltschko's career to improve their overall fitness in a 17 month period 'In comparison to the version of themselves 17 months prior. The evidence which proves this belief of my as truth is common universal knowledge within physical science.

Athletes or people don't just reach a certain stage in their careers, were their deterioration in overall fitness becomes linear. A example which again proves my point, is that Mike Tyson before he planned to fight Roy Jones Junior in a exhibition 'Mike Tyson had to improve his overall fitness and conditioning'.

The Mike Tyson who fought Roy Jones Junior in a exhibition, was categorically in better condition and was a better fighter 'Than the Mike Tyson at the start of his training camp'. And this can only be possible if? A fighter or athlete can improve their conditioning and individual components of fitness, even at that advance stage in their life 'During that time period'.

Note: I believe I have made my points very clear, and I have backed up my points with evidence and statistics. The only way this debate is going to continue, is if you decide to subjectively disagree with me. Because you have still yet to post any evidence or statistics to counter my points. This information presented here, will just be regurgitated within this debate, I have stated all that has needed to stated at this point etc.

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

You have asked me for my personal reasons as to why, I considered Wladimir Kiltschko as the favorite vs Anthony Joshua. And I have just presented to you, statistics, evidence and historic facts to back up my beliefs and points 'If you disagree with them, then that is your prerogative'.

But now judging by your reasoning, I want to ask you a few questions 'And you are going to answer them'.

If you truly believe with 1000% conviction that 1 fighter should be a favorite vs another just because of how advance they are in life 'And from that one statistic you should just dismiss the achievements and experience of that fighter coming into the fight'.

'Then everyone reading this thread, should be able to guess how you will answer all of these questions below. You should answer 'YES' to all of these questions below.

If you don't answer yes for all of these questions below, THEN I have basically proven that you don't believe the things you are saying 'Because in order for you to answer 'NO' to these questions, YOU would have to adopt the same reasoning that I was using at the time when Wladimir Kiltschko fought Anthony Joshua'.

You would have to be taking into consideration the experience and overall achievements of the fighter, at that point in time of the fight.

Did you considered Tyson Fury as the favorite vs Wladimir Kilstchko?

Did you considered David Haye as the favorite vs Wladimir Kiltschko?

Did you considered Byrant Jennings the favorite vs Wladimir Kiltschko?

Would you have considered Leon Spinks in his two fights vs Muhammad Ali the favorite?

Did you considered Kelly Pavlik as the favorite vs Bernard Hopkins?

Did you considered Jean Pascal the favorite vs Bernard Hopkins twice?

Did you considered Keith Thurman the favorite vs Manny Pacquiao?

Would you have considered Gerry Cooney the favorite vs Larry Holmes?

Did you considered Canelo Alvarez the favorite vs Floyd Mayweather Junior?

Note: Below I will post again my reasons as to why I personally had Wladimir Kiltschko as the favorite vs Anthony Joshua:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/34432...ey-boxing/amp/

Joshua was the favourite though. You’re factually wrong.

You’re the least concise poster on this site man, you just ramble on and on and the majority of it is nonsense.