Take away the baised commentators and Marquez didn't do so bad

[Dan...]

Pacquiao is sloppy but the only way to catch him is with combinations. The only fighters that were ever able to catch him were notorious combination fighters.

The first 2 or 3 punches miss because Pacquiao has very quick head movement and a hard to time rhythm. The 4th punch lands because he couldn't see it coming.

Aside from that, It seems like Pacquiao has a lot of things going for him against Mayweather. 1 being I don't think FMJ can hurt him, 2 he's defensive first. Pacquiao loves fighting coming forward, he doesn't like fighting backwards. Even against Hatton he looked sloppy fighting backwards but he had wicked speed and a good gameplan to counter that.

fighting Floyd he will have all the room in the world to attack, if floyd sits on the ropes? all the better.

maybe I'm delusional..thats what I see though. My trainer shares the same opinion as you and I didn't here the end of it after Marquez lost

Manny has never fought a defensive counter-puncher of Floyd's ability. He has got that straight left, not doubt, but he puts everything into that punch. People who don't think Floyd is going to be able to evade that punch are nuts. Manny doesn't disguise that punch. He relies on it being too fast and explosive for guys to be able to handle.

The problem for Pac in this matchup is that he is in there against a guy with crazy speed, particularly in relation to his upper body movement. Floyd is going to make Manny miss that straight left and hammer him on the counter. This will be the key exchange of the fight, if it ever happens.

You don't think Floyd can hurt Manny? I completely disagree. Manny has been hurt plenty of times by Juan Manuel Marquez and Erik Morales - you don't think Floyd packs more of a punch at 147 than those guys did at 130? Floyd, the guy who stopped Hatton? Floyd will land clean shots on Pacquiao and hurt him, no doubt.

I don't think you are being delusional, I just think you need to consider Mayweather's strengths a little and his style and how that matches up against Pacquiao. It is no mistake that all of Pacquiao's best wins of late have come against aggressive fighters with less than superb defence. Hatton, Oscar, Diaz - all very aggressive fighters without great defence. Floyd is defensively superb - maybe not quite Whitaker good - but not too far from it. Manny will just miss the target too much IMO, and that is something you cannot do against Mayweather.

[them_apples]

Manny has never fought a defensive counter-puncher of Floyd's ability. He has got that straight left, not doubt, but he puts everything into that punch. People who don't think Floyd is going to be able to evade that punch are nuts. Manny doesn't disguise that punch. He relies on it being too fast and explosive for guys to be able to handle.

The problem for Pac in this matchup is that he is in there against a guy with crazy speed, particularly in relation to his upper body movement. Floyd is going to make Manny miss that straight left and hammer him on the counter. This will be the key exchange of the fight, if it ever happens.

You don't think Floyd can hurt Manny? I completely disagree. Manny has been hurt plenty of times by Juan Manuel Marquez and Erik Morales - you don't think Floyd packs more of a punch at 147 than those guys did at 130? Floyd, the guy who stopped Hatton? Floyd will land clean shots on Pacquiao and hurt him, no doubt.

I don't think you are being delusional, I just think you need to consider Mayweather's strengths a little and his style and how that matches up against Pacquiao. It is no mistake that all of Pacquiao's best wins of late have come against aggressive fighters with less than superb defence. Hatton, Oscar, Diaz - all very aggressive fighters without great defence. Floyd is defensively superb - maybe not quite Whitaker good - but not too far from it. Manny will just miss the target too much IMO, and that is something you cannot do against Mayweather.

Roberto Duran was a lw, he wen't 15 rounds with Marvin Hagler. Don't you think Hagler packs more of a punch than Esteban De Jesus? Hagler really didn't hurt Duran in comparison to what you might write down on paper.

My point is, Pacquiao has scaled and come up in weight very nicely. It's not like you have a chin rating that stays exactly the same as you move up in weight, just like punching power.

I agree that Pacquiao comes out looking good if it's against someone who is open to be hit. But nobody fights like Mayweather. If thats the only factor then Mayweather is unbeatable. However, Pacquiaos style incorporates everything that Mayweather has struggled with. Speed (Judah) power (Oscar) southpaw(Judah) aggression and heart (Castillo) His defense has improved greatly, while not on Mayweathers level - he moves his head and is incredibly fast on his feet - quicker than Mayweather I might add.

Mayweather will make fools of guys slower than him, and that like to stay in the middle of the ring.


I guess we will have to bet again come fight time, if it ever happens.

[Dan...]

Roberto Duran was a lw, he wen't 15 rounds with Marvin Hagler. Don't you think Hagler packs more of a punch than Esteban De Jesus? Hagler really didn't hurt Duran in comparison to what you might write down on paper.

My point is, Pacquiao has scaled and come up in weight very nicely. It's not like you have a chin rating that stays exactly the same as you move up in weight, just like punching power.

I agree that Pacquiao comes out looking good if it's against someone who is open to be hit. But nobody fights like Mayweather. If thats the only factor then Mayweather is unbeatable. However, Pacquiaos style incorporates everything that Mayweather has struggled with. Speed (Judah) power (Oscar) southpaw(Judah) aggression and heart (Castillo) His defense has improved greatly, while not on Mayweathers level - he moves his head and is incredibly fast on his feet - quicker than Mayweather I might add.

Mayweather will make fools of guys slower than him, and that like to stay in the middle of the ring.


I guess we will have to bet again come fight time, if it ever happens.

Haha, for sure. It is the wide divergence of opinion that makes this fight so interesting. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of Manny and I love what he has done of late and I love watching him in the ring, I just think that Mayweather is all wrong for him.

Just a few things:

You talk about the "aggression and heart" that gave Floyd trouble in the Castillo fight. I don't really see it like that. It was Castillo's ability to get on the inside and rought Floyd up with hooks to the body and head that hurt Mayweather in that fight in my view. Manny won't do that. He will try to dart in and out and catch Floyd with those fast shots like he has in all of his fights to date. His problem is that that will bring him into Floyd's range and Floyd will be able to make him miss and then he will clock him.

Pacquiao's big chance in this fight is that Floyd just can't handle his straight left hand. If he can't, Floyd is in trouble. I just don't think that will be the case. Mayweather is great at adjusting and I think he will find out how best to make Manny miss with that straight left and once he does the fight is effectively over.

[Young Mike]

Roberto Duran was a lw, he wen't 15 rounds with Marvin Hagler. Don't you think Hagler packs more of a punch than Esteban De Jesus? Hagler really didn't hurt Duran in comparison to what you might write down on paper.

My point is, Pacquiao has scaled and come up in weight very nicely. It's not like you have a chin rating that stays exactly the same as you move up in weight, just like punching power.

I agree that Pacquiao comes out looking good if it's against someone who is open to be hit. But nobody fights like Mayweather. If thats the only factor then Mayweather is unbeatable. However, Pacquiaos style incorporates everything that Mayweather has struggled with. Speed (Judah) power (Oscar) southpaw(Judah) aggression and heart (Castillo) His defense has improved greatly, while not on Mayweathers level - he moves his head and is incredibly fast on his feet - quicker than Mayweather I might add.

Mayweather will make fools of guys slower than him, and that like to stay in the middle of the ring.


I guess we will have to bet again come fight time, if it ever happens.

I believe Pacquiao just like cotto or mosley have the ability to beat Floyd, but I'm not sure if their smart enough to understand what its needed to beat floyd. which has to do with timing, fakes and other stuff.

Mosley is getting old, Cotto has been through wars and Pacquiao might be in for a surprise. I believe mosley will end up needing more of his youth to beat floyd, while cotto has gotten slower and runs out of gas. Might have to do with receiving plaster body shots, but the bottomline is that smarts is what takes to beat a guy like floyd that concentrated fully on defense.

Floyd always has his head up and always waiting to hit his opponents by surprise while cotto is always looking down to the ground while receiving those uppercuts. If anyone trully studies floyd they an beat him. He's not that fast as he was before and he doesn't have the one punch to knock you out, unless its a lucky shot. Sure he can knock someone out like hatton, but only after hatton had been soften up during the rounds.

[wichito_one]

With al due respect i agree that marquez did not do bad but he did not win any rounds on my card but i also dont believe floyd carried him. You really think floyd would of carried him instead of getting the ko? Reason why floyd could not finish him is because leather was coming back at him and i bet he felt some of those punches that landed good on him. As much as i hate pretty boy he is a defensive genius and you got to respect his skills now lets hope he fights a real ww next and stop BS'n around.

[The_Demon]

this thread is going nowhere and since no one else is gonna do it i will

after rewatching the fight with the sound off i scored it 114-113 marquez..................

you scored jones calzaghe 116-111 for jones
nuff said

[shade darkar]

He did better then Hatton, yet the same commentators were going on during the Hatton fight how good Hatton was doing.

Take away the knock down and Mayweather really didn't do **** to Marquez. I'm not saying Marquez won but it's utter BS seeing all these people going on like he was dominated. Marquez gave him a lot of trouble, even being the smaller blown up man. Mayweather looked like he didn't know what to do against Marquez so he resorted to jabbing, hence not being able to knock Marquez out.

The same garbage was happening in the Cotto vs Margarito fight, I bet Cotto would have won that fight had he not been stopped (by robbery). Margarito was visibly busting Cotto up from round 2 and on, yet the Letterman card was even up untill the 9th or 10th round (or something like that). WTF?

I shut the volume off the JMM vs Mayweather fight and i'm seeing the same thing, a competitive fight, Marquez landing less, throwing more but getting some hard shots in. He lost a decision, i'm not dis*****g that - but no way in hell was he dominated, he put up a good fight.

I think this is why Mayweather kept saying "I felt a bit rusty" or "I can still improve" it's because he felt like he was having trouble with Marquez.

One last thing, when a fighter "smiles" after getting hit, it usually means it hurt. For some ****** ass reason the commentators are acting like Mayweather is just joking around. Marquez said so himself after the fight "I know he felt my punches".

anyways, for those of you who actually read all this I thank you, I expect the typical meat head responses to call me a Marquez nuthugger who's crying over spilled milk. I had Mayweather winning - but not by domination.

im not sure of the punch stats but id imagine hatton might have landed slightly more than 12% of his punches. but the main point tho is that hatton did win 3 or 4 rounds against mayweather, marquez didnt.

And i like most people had mayweather winning every single round thus a 120-107 scorecard is about right.

[Boxing Scene]

Marquez didn't land much, but what did Mayweather do? not much either.

watch the fight again.

You are just ******. or blind. I am leaning towards the former.

[shade darkar]

Marquez didn't land much, but what did Mayweather do? not much either.

watch the fight again.

lol, that is chuckle worthy! mayweather landed 290 punches! which is like 24-25 punches landed a round at the same time as avoiding 88% of marquez's shots!

[IwatchBoxing]

how? Cottos face was getting busted up and he was bleeding from every orifice on his face.

EDIT: I just realized both JMM and Marg were Mexican, please don't take this as a racial bias I have, I'm not even Mexican, only an example.

you racial nuthugger...u exposed urself again