I can’t decide if Canelo was ever a truly great fighter now.

[Pac=Duran]

Bivol won every single round clearly holy ****

[Bermuda]

If Canelo can have the same CWs Manny had he probably would have changed history, don't for a minute think Manny's run was fair and square, it had more matchmaking advantages going on than any fighter in history, Canelo could have got a CW against Bivol but he chose not too because he said its not the same win, now let's play the devils advocate and they didn't fight at 175 but 169 and Canelo wins, what would you be saying now, a CW can make a lot of difference in these situations.

Lets play some more, what if Cotto wasn't a CW and Cotto wins, what if instead of a drained Oscar we have a 20lb bigger Oscar and he runs Manny over, what then, if you painted everybody with the same brush you would be a lot more consistent.

Pac didn't have catchweights or rehydration clauses for any of his championship fights from 112 to 140. That's a 28lb move with no advantages. In fact Pac was usually at a disadvantage (fighting on short notice, fighting in opponent's backyard, moving up to the opponent's weightclass, etc.). And Pac fought multiple lineal champions and top ten p4p'ers.

Canelo had rehydration clauses and catchweights for a few of his championship fights from 154 to 175. 21lb move.

Pac is very brave and legendary for what he did.


- Bermuda

[hugh grant]

If Canelo can have the same CWs Manny had he probably would have changed
Lets play some more, what if Cotto wasn't a CW and Cotto wins, , if you painted everybody with the same brush you would be a lot more consistent.

Floyd didn't want a cw with GGG at 160 to be 5 division champ he would prefer the drain game to 154 and that's why GGG offered it. Floyd just wanted to be unbeaten, winning titles at 160 weren't important.
You can assume cotto would beat pac at 147 if you want but with what pac has achieved at 147 you'd not likely think cotto beats pac at 147. Anyway cotto declined rematch at 147. Where was Floyd's 154 rematch with nelo? Floyds got no really great wins at 154 to prove he could do anything special at 154

[PRINCEKOOL]

You can pick apart many fighters resume if you have an agenda to do so.

he’s certainly been fortunate to pick up a win and draw v GGG though.

But losses today are too scrutinised. Hagler lost fights to fringe contenders on his way up, nobody really cares, it hasn’t affected much. Haglers biggest name of opponents were all guys that started 2 or more weight divisions below

Duran in the 80’s lost to fighters not even considered on his level, people can make excuses why but that’s his fault.

Canelo is an excellent fighter, he’s simply fought
some other excellent fighters too. Won some, lost some. That’s happened throughout boxing history among top fighters and nobody cared until 10-15 years ago

I wondered what has caused that shift in attitudes. Because it is really, only in boxing.

Why have boxing fans or some boxing fans become like this?

I think a sport like boxing, unearths the traits in people's characters that they suppress when watching other sports.

And this is because, on some level people look down upon boxers 'As lowly athletes'. Or see them as entertainers primarily. ****** to entertainment.

But the media and people within boxing. Give us this perception that, universally fighters are viewed as hero's.

Those same hero's only need to have 1 loss, or make 1 mistake. And they will be torn apart. Anthony Joshua has realized this, that is why he is forming into the Dark Night 'Dark Joshua'.

Sometimes you can lose in other sports, and gain masses of admiration still. This only happens once every blue moon in boxing, and even it does happen 'It consist of people virtue signally.

Strange one, people look down on boxers. But on a street level, they would get more respect in comparison to any other sports athletes.

I always think boxers who say things like 'I do this for the fans' are playing the mug.

[champion4ever]

im torn about whether Canelo was ever great tbh. He had the luxury of being able to sit back and know he had 3 rounds advantage in every fight he was in pretty much.

-Asterisk against the win over Austin Trout due to the open scoring scam.
-Asterisk against Lara win. Lara won by one point in my score card.
-Asterisk against draw in first GGG fight. Golovkin won 8-4 easy.
-Asterisk against GGG 2. Fight was a draw most likely.
-Asterisk against Khan fight in general. Why the **** was this made. I look back over Canelos record and KHAN is there lol it’s the biggest WTF moment in terms of match making ever.
-Asterisk over Floyd and Bivol fights due to clear and obvious insanity on the judges score cards. Dunno what’s a better example of clear corruption in boxing: Canelo getting a draw vs Floyd on one score card or Canelo winning all 4 of the opening 4 rounds vs Bivol.

was Canelo ever a truly great fighter? Was he ever deserving of P4P number one?

Just rewatching it the Bivol fight from an angle in the crowd where you can see every punch. Canelo lost all of the first 7 rounds. It was a total ass whooping and Bivol could have kod Canelo at any time. Damn I had no idea how bad the ass whopping was when I was watching it with commentary etc

heres the link perfect quality: https://********/1QTvnk1XDP8

I totally agree. It's without question and it goes without saying; That he has been the beneficiary of a lot of dubious and questionable decisions on many of the official judge's scorecards throughout his career. Including but just not limited to Floyd Mayweather, GGG and the fight we all just witnessed last week with Dmitry Bivol.

All of those fights were as one-sided as can be and yet he still managed to persuade judges that he had a Draw with Mayweather on at least one scorecard. Then he was able to persuade all the judges that his first fight with GGG was a draw.

Then subsequently, he was able to convince the judges that all he needed was to win the last and final round in order to retain his one loss. Something is definitely very fishy with him.

[SplitSecond]

Firstly, If some of you followed boxing for longer/closer, you’d realise that close fights occur 90% of the time two same lvl guys fight. Close fights is the product of Canelo fighting prime, undefeated, hungry fighters with elite skills. Because guys under that lvl, or elites compromised, Canelo destroys. He could easily make a dominant career like Mayweather fighting hasbeens, semi-retired Hoya, Marquez 2 weightclasses, Pacquiao after being KO’d, tattered Cotto. Seriously who’s roll did he stop, what Elite’s? Mayweather had a close fight with Castillo with 8 losses or whatever it was, and Maidana who’s no elite.

Canelo fought a prime Trout, prime Lara, prime Golovkin (not peak, but on undefeated and in his high), same with Bivol. When he takes an advantage look what happened to Kovalev, when they are below elite he dominates them. That’s a great fighter. No one is dominating Golovkin, and anyone who paid attention knew Bivol was likely to school Canelo. Both these guys are bigger than Canelo too. Two top-tier technicians who have been dominating the world of boxing since the amateurs.

He beat the elite his size in Lara (you had Lara winning, I had Canelo winning, some had Hagler winning, some had Leonard winning, elite lvl fighters fighting).

Secondly, some of you really need to learn how to score. Lara didn’t beat Canelo, Trout didn’t beat Canelo, Kovalev was the one getting outboxed, do you even pay attention to who’s actually landing or is it always automatic points for the out-fighter until he gets battered? Everytime the out-fighter is some how winning all these rounds doing *** all. Plant was another so called close fight, how? Dude threw some pitty paty back-hand arm jabs and was getting leveled with full bodied hooks? How do you score rd’s for a guy doing no damage but taking damage, and then you’re surprised when the guy goes down, like it came out of nowhere, lol.

[eco1]

I have told you since the beginning, B+ fighter very well matched, with bought judges and a walking CVS