Who is more skilled at their peak, Canelo or Toney?

[Sweet Pea 5O]

I don't think it's a knock on Canelo to have this discussion.

Prime Toney was a P4P type of dude.

[Comanche]

Easy.

Better head movement, better at cutting off the ring, stronger, better chin, a bit faster with hands, better body puncher, a lot more discipline.

Not better at cutting off the ring though that is not either guy's specialty.

Definitely not faster hands at all. Thats Toney all day.

Toney had a better jab, better counter, better inside fighter, more accurate puncher, smarter in the ring, better footwork.

[real raw]

There’s zero evidence he had “another gear”

lol, that's funny

[MONGOOSE66]

Ofcourse it's Canelo without a doubt.

But again the haters will find every opportunity to discredit him.

Their not “haters”. It used to be called “jealous teenage girls”.

[gauze]

i'm a big toney fan. i think canelo is a solid fighter but he's someone that learned to fight. toney has a style that you can't teach. you can learn to fight like canelo but you can't learn to fight like toney or roy jones jr. you have to have it in you. toney is the kind of guy who can get up off the couch and give anyone from any era a tough fight. i don't think canelo can do that.

[QueensburyRules]

i'm a big toney fan. i think canelo is a solid fighter but he's someone that learned to fight. toney has a style that you can't teach. you can learn to fight like canelo but you can't learn to fight like toney or roy jones jr. you have to have it in you. toney is the kind of guy who can get up off the couch and give anyone from any era a tough fight. i don't think canelo can do that.

- - Nobody waddle like Two Ton Toney.

Fres roll him out the ring like a keg of beer.

No way Canelo could do these kinda things on his best day.

And could Canelo ever clear out a chicken shack like Two Ton?

No way, Jose!

[PRINCEKOOL]

Canelo no doubt. Toney was very good but easier to hit clean. As he got older he rarely used his legs. RRJ kinda made him look average.

Mayweather made Alvarez look like he was not world class, and that was a Mayweather nowhere near his peak.

James Toney had a better defense than Alvarez, he was not easy to hit. His defense on the inside was by far superior to Alvarez's.

Alvarez does have marginally better movement, but not by much. And I think they were equal in their tactical abilities and creativity.

Overall I think Toney was tougher, more durable and had a by far superior offense.

But skill for skill they are not levels apart, just in some area's Toney is better. Toney is better in the game changing area's of boxing.

That is why I think the best versions of Toney at 160 & 190-200 pounds beats Alvarez.

James Toney has also beaten better fighters.

[Sweet Pea 5O]

Not better at cutting off the ring though that is not either guy's specialty.

Definitely not faster hands at all. Thats Toney all day.

Toney had a better jab, better counter, better inside fighter, more accurate puncher, smarter in the ring, better footwork.

Toney in his prime was no joke with his hand speed.

The Iran Barkley fight was my eye opener.

[MONGOOSE66]

Mayweather made Alvarez look like he was not world class, and that was a Mayweather nowhere near his peak.

James Toney had a better defense than Alvarez, he was not easy to hit. His defense on the inside was by far superior to Alvarez's.

Alvarez does have marginally better movement, but not by much. And I think they were equal in their tactical abilities and creativity.

Overall I think Toney was tougher, more durable and had a by far superior offense.

But skill for skill they are not levels apart, just in some area's Toney is better. Toney is better in the game changing area's of boxing.

That is why I think the best versions of Toney at 160 & 190-200 pounds beats Alvarez.

James Toney has also beaten better fighters.

Yea I agree theirs not a huge difference. If I had to get in the ring and had a choice of either meatsuit. I’d pick Canelo. Only man who “outpointed” him was Mayweather. It was FAR from an ass whippin.
RJJ and Mayweather handled both Toney and Canelo with INCREDIBLE SPEED.
If I had to pick between Mayweather and RJJ. I’d pick Mayweather.

[PRINCEKOOL]

Yea I agree theirs not a huge difference. If I had to get in the ring and had a choice of either meatsuit. I’d pick Canelo. Only man who “outpointed” him was Mayweather. It was FAR from an ass whippin.
RJJ and Mayweather handled both Toney and Canelo with INCREDIBLE SPEED.
If I had to pick between Mayweather and RJJ. I’d pick Mayweather.

When fighters are pretty much level skill for skill, I personally then look to their tactical ability, decision making, creativity.

And also durability.

Fighters like Toney & Hopkins would not be bewildered by Alvarez, and they would not be stopped in their tracks off a single punch.

Hopkins is physically stronger than Alvarez on the inside, has better movement,and defense. These are game changing area's.

Toney has a superior offense, and better defense on the inside. Again game changing area's.

The reason why I have brought those two fighters up is because, Alvarez is in and around their level skill for skill. Hopkins may be in no mans land, just above them but not quite on Mayweather & Jones Junior level.

I still think fighters like Carl Froch & Joe Calzaghe would beat Alvarez, I just think they would be far too strong 'Plus their endurance was super elite'. These areas I think can bridge the gap in skill level at times.

If Alvarez has one deficiency, it is that he has a lack of gears.

But yes, Toney & Alvarez are not levels apart. Toney does have a good tactical mind.

Notice how Alvarez's opponents these days, all seem bewildered and reactive. That is because tactically, Alvarez is perceiving more information and is a few moves ahead of them.

This Advantage goes out of the window for Alvarez against Toney & Hopkins.