Joshua is good, but nothing like a Lewis.

[Inspired]

I don't see what Lewis did as great tbh. his prime was 97-99 but it's not like he was fighting real elite guys. his opponents were that pulev/parker level eg the likes of david tua, rahman, mccall. his only elite win was against holyfield and Vitali, but we know the vitali fight was spoiled and he was losing.
so exactly wtf did he do that was so great?

aj's resume before his ruiz loss was already better than lewis's (with 1 exception, the holyfield win). I can't compare them directly in other ways because different eras...athletes are bigger/stronger today than they used to be. I'm going to putt hat down to advances in nutrition.

lewis got ko'd, single punch knockouts by mccall and rahman.
lewis's prime, 97-99, he was brilliant..but the mentality i had towards him at that point was more like 'THIS GUY IS BETTER THAN THE AMERICANS'...and that's because he didnt get the hype like tyson and holyfield did. most american boxing fans thought lewis was sh**.once he beat their holyfield and tyson, then the americans accepted him.

this era is completely diff in terms of the boxing business landscape. aj's made far more money than lewis did and probably lost his hunger, if not his hunger than certainly his Will...he just doesnt have that dog in him no more. 2016-17 version of aj would have just absolutely put it all on the line in the usyk fight. against usyk i saw a guy who just didnt want to and was happy to take the rematch.

[QueensburyRules]

Man, just because i said that Lewis is better than AJ, doesn't mean that AJ sucks. And how you mention McCall, and fail to mention how AJ got obliterated by a 2 week notice Ruiz

A fully trained Ruiz was getting dropped and hurt by a badly shop-worn Arreola. I commed that AJ avenged this loss. But his career isn't over. Lewis ended his career with 2 losses, both avenged. AJ's career isn't over yet, and it doesn't look like he'll win every fight from now on. Let me know if your opinion is still the same 10 years from now when AJ is retired. Think he'll retire without another few losses or no? I actually liked his style before he started doing this pawing jab crap his past few fights. He's starting to look like a fighter with a major identity crisis, rather than a world beater that he used to look like

- - I needed your lead in a Fat Andy reference who singlehandedly shamed Big Baby, Deyonce, Flubber, Whyte, Kownacki, Ortiz, an a few others who turned down record purses to go after the low hanging fruit of WBC TBA Deyonce who was overripe for the picking. Fat Andy has the all time scalp of his era that supersedes the rest of these light in the loafer pretenders.

AJ already exceeded Lewie by dint of actually defending his unified belts against better competition in a more condensed time frame. Only guy to duck Lewie was Big Dummy...ha ha, ho ho, he he...you're welcome...

[billeau2]

- - AJ ain't never been one punched KOed like Lewie. Like Wlad, he's always been on his feet and defended his unified titles unlike Lewie who ducked the Ks, Ruiz and Byrd...you're welcome...

yeah he ducked his mandos because they were shiat. He fought Grant who was considered much more of a threat at the time than no punching Ruiz... and Byrd? Ok. Vlad always fought his mandos for the same reason! (because they were shiat, an easy mark) Lol.

[billeau2]

I don't see what Lewis did as great tbh. his prime was 97-99 but it's not like he was fighting real elite guys. his opponents were that pulev/parker level eg the likes of david tua, rahman, mccall. his only elite win was against holyfield and Vitali, but we know the vitali fight was spoiled and he was losing.
so exactly wtf did he do that was so great?

aj's resume before his ruiz loss was already better than lewis's (with 1 exception, the holyfield win). I can't compare them directly in other ways because different eras...athletes are bigger/stronger today than they used to be. I'm going to putt hat down to advances in nutrition.

lewis got ko'd, single punch knockouts by mccall and rahman.
lewis's prime, 97-99, he was brilliant..but the mentality i had towards him at that point was more like 'THIS GUY IS BETTER THAN THE AMERICANS'...and that's because he didnt get the hype like tyson and holyfield did. most american boxing fans thought lewis was sh**.once he beat their holyfield and tyson, then the americans accepted him.

this era is completely diff in terms of the boxing business landscape. aj's made far more money than lewis did and probably lost his hunger, if not his hunger than certainly his Will...he just doesnt have that dog in him no more. 2016-17 version of aj would have just absolutely put it all on the line in the usyk fight. against usyk i saw a guy who just didnt want to and was happy to take the rematch.

you need to look at Lewis' record... Golota, Morrison, Holyfield, Briggs, Tua, Vitali, Tyson... seriosly.

[HENNY]

- - I needed your lead in a Fat Andy reference who singlehandedly shamed Big Baby, Deyonce, Flubber, Whyte, Kownacki, Ortiz, an a few others who turned down record purses to go after the low hanging fruit of WBC TBA Deyonce who was overripe for the picking. Fat Andy has the all time scalp of his era that supersedes the rest of these light in the loafer pretenders.

AJ already exceeded Lewie by dint of actually defending his unified belts against better competition in a more condensed time frame. Only guy to duck Lewie was Big Dummy...ha ha, ho ho, he he...you're welcome...

"All-time scalp" lol proceeds to get dropped by a shell of a fighter in Arreola. Don't pick and choose the narrative, many of us will live long enough to see the full careers of all of these fighters. There are many fighters in boxing that had a strong rise to the top, but ended up failing hard and suffering terrible defeats. I think the general consensus in this forum believes that AJ is more likely to follow this trajectory, than go undefeated the rest of his career. In 5 years, lmk if you still think that AJ is the ATG fighter that you think he is now. I personally hope the mfer figures it out, but I'm not going to stan like you and pretend he's better than a fighter that was arguably the best in his division of his era. Let his career finish, and then discuss

[Toffee]

"All-time scalp" lol proceeds to get dropped by a shell of a fighter in Arreola. Don't pick and choose the narrative, many of us will live long enough to see the full careers of all of these fighters. There are many fighters in boxing that had a strong rise to the top, but ended up failing hard and suffering terrible defeats. I think the general consensus in this forum believes that AJ is more likely to follow this trajectory, than go undefeated the rest of his career. In 5 years, lmk if you still think that AJ is the ATG fighter that you think he is now. I personally hope the mfer figures it out, but I'm not going to stan like you and pretend he's better than a fighter that was arguably the best in his division of his era. Let his career finish, and then discuss

The future will remove some of the narrative around Joshua. People will look back at his resume and his achievements.

He doesn't have to go undefeated. My guess is he'll be fighting pretty much all top fighters through to the end of his career. Which isn't that far off.

It's not inconceivable that he finishes as a three time champion. Unified very early in his career. Lots of successful defences.

The question for me is whether he can get the really big win to define him. A Fury or a Wilder. Wilder will still look good on the CV. Maybe Usyk would count as that win, though I don't think Usyk's heavyweight CV will end up in the record books in any great standing, as good as he is.

Basically, if he can beat Usyk plus one defining win... he'd be held in very high regard in the pantheon of heavyweights. And deservedly. Would you agree?

[Toffee]

you need to look at Lewis' record... Golota, Morrison, Holyfield, Briggs, Tua, Vitali, Tyson... seriosly.

I'm not sure why it's even debated. It's an ATG CV.

[tonysoprano]

you need to look at Lewis' record... Golota, Morrison, Holyfield, Briggs, Tua, Vitali, Tyson... seriosly.

Holyfield past prime, Tyson totally shot, Golota was trash, Morrison was trash, Briggs was nothing special. Even his signature wins against Ruddock and Bruno came after Tyson had already beaten both of them

Only Tua and and Vital in that list could be considered in their prime and great wins.

Lennox is great but he managed to avoid fighting every elite HW of his era (Bowe, Tyson, Holy) when they were in THEIR primes. He played the long game, turned pro at 23 and waited it out. Good career strategy but his CV isn't anywhere near as good as some people think.

Bit like Joe Calslappy having Bhop and RJJ as names on his CV when in reality if he fights both in their prime he would have got schooled.

[HENNY]

The future will remove some of the narrative around Joshua. People will look back at his resume and his achievements.

He doesn't have to go undefeated. My guess is he'll be fighting pretty much all top fighters through to the end of his career. Which isn't that far off.

It's not inconceivable that he finishes as a three time champion. Unified very early in his career. Lots of successful defences.

The question for me is whether he can get the really big win to define him. A Fury or a Wilder. Wilder will still look good on the CV. Maybe Usyk would count as that win, though I don't think Usyk's heavyweight CV will end up in the record books in any great standing, as good as he is.

Basically, if he can beat Usyk plus one defining win... he'd be held in very high regard in the pantheon of heavyweights. And deservedly. Would you agree?

Yeah, I agree. He has quite a bit of fights left in his career. Yeah, he has some ugly losses. But whatever he does next, throughout the end of his career will determine his ranking against historical top fighters. As of now, you can't justifiably rank him better than Lennox. But 5 years from now, depending on how things go? Maybe you can

[Nash out]

Holyfield past prime, Tyson totally shot, Golota was trash, Morrison was trash, Briggs was nothing special. Even his signature wins against Ruddock and Bruno came after Tyson had already beaten both of them

Only Tua and and Vital in that list could be considered in their prime and great wins.

Lennox is great but he managed to avoid fighting every elite HW of his era (Bowe, Tyson, Holy) when they were in THEIR primes. He played the long game, turned pro at 23 and waited it out. Good career strategy but his CV isn't anywhere near as good as some people think.

Bit like Joe Calslappy having Bhop and RJJ as names on his CV when in reality if he fights both in their prime he would have got schooled.

True. Imagine as if people would give Tyson Fury credit for beating Golota! LMAO. Golota was a decent domestic boxer, no more, no less, a guy who Lewis should beat 1000/1000 times. Morrison was the same level, big puncher, but ultimately dog ****, that eras David Price. Briggs good B level boxer, but certainly no more. The version of Tyson he beat was not even a top 20 HW at the time. 1-1with Mccall, 1-1 with Rahman, schooled by finished Mercer. I don't get it with Lewis, he went from underrated, then instead of levelling him up, he suddenly went from top 20 HW of all time, to the best. Even Evan Fields was done when Lewis beat and drew with him. The Tyson fight was embarrassing and should not have been sanctioned. Mike could on another day easily been killed that night in a ridiculous mismatch. Nash out.