How Great Is Alvarez

[TernceBudCharlo]

You dissect his opponents and downplay his competition, all while being a fan and arguing Terrence Crawford is p4p#1.

You don’t hold Crawford to the same rigorous resume scolding you do with Canelo, so I’ll do it for you.

Let’s do this with your fighter now.

Crawford beat:

Porter, a guy that’s taken many losses, who some actually had winning before he got knocked out. He’s a good fighter, and sadly, the best win on Crawford’s weak resume. Maybe he’s a HOF? Probably not.

Kell Brook- Dude had his eye socket destroyed, what kind of an opponent is this?? He should have retired before this fight.

Amir Khan- Fought him years later after Canelo savagely knocked him out.

Jose Benavidez- One legged guy was actually looking pretty good against Crawford before his legs started going out and got stopped late in the fight. This was the fight for me that convinced me Crawford wasn’t really all that.

Also beat; Jeff Horn, Lundy, Dulorme, Molina, blah blah blah, average joes, a bunch of nothing special fighters. It’s no wonder you think he’s so good.

These were mostly current or former world champions, many undefeated, again just like Canelo. Bud has also never lost, never failed a PED test, never even been in a close fight, never had a controversial win, and, the most important thing about Bud, he NEVER HOPS AROUND CLASSES TO AVOID SMOKE IN HIS WEIGHT CLASS. He moves up in weight to run after the smoke because he is the smoke. Canelo left 160 because he was afraid of Demetrius Andrade and Jermall Charlo. But move up to 147 because there was a guy there that everyone is calling p4p and Bud wants a piece of the action. When has Bud ever had a smoke and mirrors fight? No Kovalev's, no Makabus, none of that.

Canelo is a great fighter by today's comparison, but he is not an all time great yet. Bud will be an all time great when he beats Spence. The question is, who will be Canelo's Spence? Maybe he can go to 160 and fight Bud, but I think he'd be afraid of that fight too.

[Oracle01]

Kovalev was constantly on his bike and throwing pitty pat punches the whole fight. He wasn’t winning anything.

You can blame Callum Smith for that. He fought to survive. He wasn’t fighting to win. You need to understand. It’s hard to KO a guy when he’s playing keep away.

I’m in agreement with Yildirm, but Canelo did what was expected of him.

Against Saunders and Plant, he broke those guys down with his skill and patience. Plant won maybe like, 3 rds at the start. Canelo shows great patience. Towards the end of the bout, Canelo was banking rounds. Saunders won his fair share of rounds too, but make no mistake, Canelos class showed up in those bouts. And Saunders and Plant are solid guys. How can you knock a guy for handing 2 undefeated boxers their 1st 0, and by stoppage at that matter?

Yes Kov was just throwing pitty patty all fight, but guess what? It was still enough to control Canelo and have it basically even on the score cards after 10. Saunders and Plant were not 'broken down', they were caught with a good punch. Stop pretending like he was beating them down, when the fights were very competitive until they were stopped. Canelo rarely just runs over fighters unless they are complete bums like Fielding. Manny used to run over elite fighters and Floyd dominated them. If you want to see fighters getting genuinely broken down, watch a Benavidez fight.

Canelo nowhere neat ATG level, and the fact he is still cherry picking and ducking suggests even he and his manager know it. He is a 7.5/10 fighter imo.

[GrandpaBernard]

Yes Kov was just throwing pitty patty all fight, but guess what? It was still enough to control Canelo and have it basically even on the score cards after 10. Saunders and Plant were not 'broken down', they were caught with a good punch. Stop pretending like he was beating them down, when the fights were very competitive until they were stopped. Canelo rarely just runs over fighters unless they are complete bums like Fielding. Manny used to run over elite fighters and Floyd dominated them. If you want to see fighters getting genuinely broken down, watch a Benavidez fight.

Canelo nowhere neat ATG level, and the fact he is still cherry picking and ducking suggests even he and his manager know it. He is a 7.5/10 fighter imo.

Yep there’s levels

Floyd is legendary
manny is very great
Alvarez is great

we were spoiled to be in an era that had both Floyd AND manny

guys who badly beat hall of famers come every now and then

[Stephankotyk]

His signature wins are against GGG, and we all now how it went with illegal substances ban and strange results on cards.
his weight jumps is all smoke and mirrors, same as tank is doing, i get it is marketing but you cant call him top atg smth for this, while having all the undefeated guys in his OWN devision. And don’t give me bs about “they are ducking him”, as he brings payday win or lose.

[Oracle01]

As good as they get.

One of the things I really like about him is that he started his career as a pretender. Absolute fraud. It wasn't his doing, but he was handed a WBC belt on a silver platter and then had an absolutely disgraceful run of defenses against ****ty, past prime welterweights that were brought up to 154.

But did he coast on that, like Chavez Jr? Rake in the cash, **** groupies, and be happy with all his fanboys telling him he's great? Nope.

He fought Mosley, Lopez and Trout back to back and dominated them with his boxing. Came up well short against the greatest of the era, Mayweather, but then fought stopped Angulo, eeked by prime Lara, KO'd Kirkland and outboxed Cotto.

That alone is a top shelf run. What he's been able to do since then is one word: special. Canelo is a special fighter.

My only issue is that, like most people, I had him losing both GGG fights. But I think GGG is the 2nd best middleweight of all time, after Robinson.

Whats so special about beating a bunch of average euro fighters, and an average feather fisted Plant, and a shot Kovalev? Do you know what special means? I will give you an example. Manny's hot run in the mid to late 2000s. That top shelf run you listed was also a lot of smoke and mirrors, by beating past time Mosley Cottoo, and a bunch of average fighters, while Trout gave him a competitive fight.

How is GGG the second best MW of all time with his weak can filled resume? How is Canelo as good as they get when he barely won a round from a 36 year old Mayweather? You throw around a lot of claims without much supporting them.

[b Murphington]

He is a great fighter compared to today's fighters but this thread I thought was about whether he's an all time great, I don't think he's proven that yet

I go back and forth on it with me myself. I don’t want to be too quick to say things like ATG status especially when a boxer is currently IN THERE PRIME! He’s 31 still. It’s just cuz he’s been around for so long now, even at 31. He looks the goods and I think he has the ability and talent to get there, but talent alone doesn’t get you ATG status. Ask Adrien Broner. I think Canelo is well on his way though if he continues to challenge himself. But he has food left on the table so to speak.

[ruedboy]

At 50-1-2 Alvarez has proved to be the best of his era and what more can you ask?
I don't think it's possible to compare fighters from different eras, but if I had to
I think Saul's inability to dominate an aging Golovkin and his tendency to fight weak champs will hurt his legacy.

[Boxing fan1981]

These were mostly current or former world champions, many undefeated, again just like Canelo. Bud has also never lost, never failed a PED test, never even been in a close fight, never had a controversial win, and, the most important thing about Bud, he NEVER HOPS AROUND CLASSES TO AVOID SMOKE IN HIS WEIGHT CLASS. He moves up in weight to run after the smoke because he is the smoke. Canelo left 160 because he was afraid of Demetrius Andrade and Jermall Charlo. But move up to 147 because there was a guy there that everyone is calling p4p and Bud wants a piece of the action. When has Bud ever had a smoke and mirrors fight? No Kovalev's, no Makabus, none of that.

Canelo is a great fighter by today's comparison, but he is not an all time great yet. Bud will be an all time great when he beats Spence. The question is, who will be Canelo's Spence? Maybe he can go to 160 and fight Bud, but I think he'd be afraid of that fight too.

You think a Spence win is going to make Crawford an ATG?

So Spence and Porter and you’re an ATG? Gtfo lol

That puts him in as 1st ballot HOF dude.

Kovalev and Makabu will enhance Canelo’s legacy. Especially in the future.

[Oracle01]

A shot Kolvalev won't enhance anything. Anyone who pretends that was worth something is just a fan boy. The fact they targeted him and ran out of the division proves this point. They knew he was shot as well. Beating a bum CW champ might look good on paper but in reality its all smoke and mirrors.

[b Murphington]

Yes Kov was just throwing pitty patty all fight, but guess what? It was still enough to control Canelo and have it basically even on the score cards after 10. Saunders and Plant were not 'broken down', they were caught with a good punch. Stop pretending like he was beating them down, when the fights were very competitive until they were stopped. Canelo rarely just runs over fighters unless they are complete bums like Fielding. Manny used to run over elite fighters and Floyd dominated them. If you want to see fighters getting genuinely broken down, watch a Benavidez fight.

Canelo nowhere neat ATG level, and the fact he is still cherry picking and ducking suggests even he and his manager know it. He is a 7.5/10 fighter imo.

What you are seeing is the difference in styles. A boxer doesn’t have to be a LIGHTS OUT in your face action star. He’s not Manny Pacquiao. He’s not Floyd Mayweather. You’re wanting him to have a style that isn’t his style. Is that fair to Canelo? Not really.

Plant and Saunders were competitive EARLY. Saunders did better than Plant in my opinion. Later rounds are typically owned by Canelo cuz he takes his time. A slow starter. He likes to sit back and see what the other guy offers, which tells me he has a high IQ and he has trust in his game plan.

He has some misses right now on his resume, and I don’t like what Eddy Reynoso said in regards to facing Benavidez. That’s a dangerous bout and an action packed bout that people are asking for. It would be Canelos toughest test since GGG.