Comments Thread For: WBC Boss Attempts to Clarify Franchise Designation; Says Kambosos Should Be Regarded As 'Undisputed'

[WBC WBA IBF]

Your clearly on another planet my friend. On the first of those websites it says that Kambosos is the WBA Super champ. Underneath that it says he's the WBO and IBF champ. And below it CLEARLY states, WBC Devin Haney. I didn't check the other 2. Because I already now what they say and to be honest, if you can't get the first one right, then there's no point in me checking the other 2. At this point your making a fool of yourself. Not just with me but with lots of other posters on here. Your seeing what you want to see. My advice to you is don't look at your *****.

Before you insult me, you should learn how to read. Here's what I wrote:

"Are you willing to wager on it? I'm looking at the WBA, IBF and WBO ratings right now and see a WBC franchise world champion listed as WBC champion in all three sets of ratings."

That statement is 100% true. Do you need hints?

[Rodtang]

Before you insult me, you should learn how to read. Here's what I wrote:

"Are you willing to wager on it? I'm looking at the WBA, IBF and WBO ratings right now and see a WBC franchise world champion listed as WBC champion in all three sets of ratings."

That statement is 100% true. Do you need hints?

First of all I don't wager. Secondly I wasn't insulting you. I'm trying to help you. As I did the last time we debated this issue. And thirdly I have no clue what you think you see. If it's some kind of smart riddle, well bully for you for being imaginative. But I live in the real world. So unless you can explain what your getting at, and it has genuine merit with regards boxing, then I'm not gonna explain it to you anymore, because you just aren't getting it.

[WBC WBA IBF]

First of all I don't wager. Secondly I wasn't insulting you. I'm trying to help you. As I did the last time we debated this issue. And thirdly I have no clue what you think you see. If it's some kind of smart riddle, well bully for you for being imaginative. But I live in the real world. So unless you can explain what your getting at, and it has genuine merit with regards boxing, then I'm not gonna explain it to you anymore, because you just aren't getting it.

There are only two Franchise world champions. One of them is listed as WBC champion in the WBA, IBF and WBO ratings. If it's not the one you checked, why didn't you check the other one?

[Rodtang]

There are only two Franchise world champions. One of them is listed as WBC champion in the WBA, IBF and WBO ratings. If it's not the one you checked, why didn't you check the other one?

Ok so well done you for spotting mistakes in the Estrada situation. However the WBC world super flyweight title is currently vacant. Estrada is only the franchise champion. So this is totally irrelivant, and doesn't change the fact that Kambosos isn't undisputed. I asked you this question before, but you wouldn't answer. If Kambosos is undisputed, does that mean that Canelo and Taylor are not? Because they don't have the franchise. It can only be one belt or the other. You can't have it both ways. And don't feel bad about it because your not the only one to evade that point. No one else has answered it either.

[WBC WBA IBF]

Ok so well done you for spotting mistakes in the Estrada situation.

So you believe all three organizations have made a "mistake" month after month for nearly a year? It couldn't possibly be that they recognize the Franchise world championship? The IBF has very strict rules about refusing to sanction a fight with rival titles at stake unless it's the top title of the rival organization. There are countless examples of the IBF refusing to sanction a fight involving a WBA world champion if there was a Super world champion in the same division. However, on multiple occasions now, the IBF title has been allowed to be on the line along with the Franchise world championship, so clearly the IBF recognizes the Franchise world title as the WBC's top title.

However the WBC world super flyweight title is currently vacant. Estrada is only the franchise champion. So this is totally irrelivant, and doesn't change the fact that Kambosos isn't undisputed.

It's not irrelevant at all. Your position was that the other organizations don't recognize the Franchise world championship. Clearly that's not true because all three organizations, month after month, for nearly a year, have chosen to recognize the Franchise world championship.

If Kambosos is undisputed, does that mean that Canelo and Taylor are not?

Kambosos, Canelo and Taylor are the top champions of all four organizations, therefore they are undisputed. A disputed champion is a champion that isn't recognized by all of the major organizations. An undisputed champion is a champion that is recognized by all of the major organizations. Which organization is dis*****g that Kambosos is champion? None of them. All four agree he's champion, therefore he's undisputed. Canelo and Taylor don't need the Franchise world championship, they just need to be the top champion of each body.

Because they don't have the franchise. It can only be one belt or the other. You can't have it both ways. And don't feel bad about it because your not the only one to evade that point. No one else has answered it either.

I'm happy to answer your questions and I'm clearly the most qualified person here to answer them.

You say it can only be one belt or the other, but that's absolutely untrue. If Canelo was downgraded to WBA world champion tomorrow, he'd still be undisputed champion as long as the WBA didn't crown a super champion in his division. Being undisputed means every org says you're their top champion. Doesn't matter if you hold WBC franchise or regular, WBA super or regular, WBO super or regular, etc. What matters is that each org recognizes you as their top champion in the division.

[Rodtang]

So you believe all three organizations have made a "mistake" month after month for nearly a year? It couldn't possibly be that they recognize the Franchise world championship? The IBF has very strict rules about refusing to sanction a fight with rival titles at stake unless it's the top title of the rival organization. There are countless examples of the IBF refusing to sanction a fight involving a WBA world champion if there was a Super world champion in the same division. However, on multiple occasions now, the IBF title has been allowed to be on the line along with the Franchise world championship, so clearly the IBF recognizes the Franchise world title as the WBC's top title.




It's not irrelevant at all. Your position was that the other organizations don't recognize the Franchise world championship. Clearly that's not true because all three organizations, month after month, for nearly a year, have chosen to recognize the Franchise world championship.




Kambosos, Canelo and Taylor are the top champions of all four organizations, therefore they are undisputed. A disputed champion is a champion that isn't recognized by all of the major organizations. An undisputed champion is a champion that is recognized by all of the major organizations. Which organization is dis*****g that Kambosos is champion? None of them. All four agree he's champion, therefore he's undisputed. Canelo and Taylor don't need the Franchise world championship, they just need to be the top champion of each body.




I'm happy to answer your questions and I'm clearly the most qualified person here to answer them.

You say it can only be one belt or the other, but that's absolutely untrue. If Canelo was downgraded to WBA world champion tomorrow, he'd still be undisputed champion as long as the WBA didn't crown a super champion in his division. Being undisputed means every org says you're their top champion. Doesn't matter if you hold WBC franchise or regular, WBA super or regular, WBO super or regular, etc. What matters is that each org recognizes you as their top champion in the division.

I don't pretend to know who or how the admin is handled within the organizations. What I do know is Juan Francisco Estrada ceased being the WBC champion on the 26th of March 2021. He was made franchise champion to avoid his mandatory against Srisaket Sor Rungvisai in order to rematch Roman Gonzalez. The WBC then ordered a four man tournament. Estrada vs Gonzalez. And Sor Rungvisai vs Carlos Cuadras, for the vacant WBC world title. With the 2 winners to meet. Stick to the Haney situation, your getting out of your depth.

[WBC WBA IBF]

I don't pretend to know who or how the admin is handled within the organizations.

Then you shouldn't point to the WBA, IBF or WBO ratings as proof of who the WBC champion is.

Stick to the Haney situation, your getting out of your depth.

Quite the opposite. Not only were you caught posting false information, I proved you were wrong when you accused me of posting false information. The truth was that you don't know how to read.

All four organizations say Kambosos is their top champion. None of the organizations are dispute who the champion is. They all agree it's Kambosos. Therefore, he's an undisputed champion.

[Rodtang]

So you believe all three organizations have made a "mistake" month after month for nearly a year? It couldn't possibly be that they recognize the Franchise world championship? The IBF has very strict rules about refusing to sanction a fight with rival titles at stake unless it's the top title of the rival organization. There are countless examples of the IBF refusing to sanction a fight involving a WBA world champion if there was a Super world champion in the same division. However, on multiple occasions now, the IBF title has been allowed to be on the line along with the Franchise world championship, so clearly the IBF recognizes the Franchise world title as the WBC's top title.




It's not irrelevant at all. Your position was that the other organizations don't recognize the Franchise world championship. Clearly that's not true because all three organizations, month after month, for nearly a year, have chosen to recognize the Franchise world championship.




Kambosos, Canelo and Taylor are the top champions of all four organizations, therefore they are undisputed. A disputed champion is a champion that isn't recognized by all of the major organizations. An undisputed champion is a champion that is recognized by all of the major organizations. Which organization is dis*****g that Kambosos is champion? None of them. All four agree he's champion, therefore he's undisputed. Canelo and Taylor don't need the Franchise world championship, they just need to be the top champion of each body.




I'm happy to answer your questions and I'm clearly the most qualified person here to answer them.

You say it can only be one belt or the other, but that's absolutely untrue. If Canelo was downgraded to WBA world champion tomorrow, he'd still be undisputed champion as long as the WBA didn't crown a super champion in his division. Being undisputed means every org says you're their top champion. Doesn't matter if you hold WBC franchise or regular, WBA super or regular, WBO super or regular, etc. What matters is that each org recognizes you as their top champion in the division.

The crucial wording ( since you seem to enjoy a way with words), is not " top champions ". It is world champions. It is the world champions that are recognized for undisputed. Not top champions, not franchise champions. A franchise title may be a top WBC title but it is not a world title. That's because it is not available to all fighters in all divisions. I have explained this fact to you before but why you don't understand it is beyond me. Kambosos has a franchise title. Taylor and Canelo have world titles. Both belts can't be valid for undisputed. It's one or the other, as they are completely different titles with completely different criteria.And its the one that Taylor and Canelo have. Not Kambosos.And if it's the top title as you say. Why did Canelo refuse the franchise at 168? Because surely that would have been ok for undisputed? Actually no it wouldnt. And Mauricio actually asked Canelo if he wanted franchise (he didnt just designate him), and Canelo said no. And Maurico said hed need to do an immediate mandatory against Yildrim then. Canelo said no problem. Funny that. Canelo knew it wouldnt give him undisputed as it was already ruined for him at 160. And don't throw fictional scenarios about Canelo getting downgraded. That's just nonsense talk and just makes your arguments truly laughable. Stick with reality. But reality doesn't appear to suit your agenda. Once again your argument is weak and made up. You really need to try to understand the fundamentals here. Im done now because your struggling with this and I'm fed up explaining. Stay safe.

[WBC WBA IBF]

A franchise title may be a top WBC title but it is not a world title.

That's false. Teofimo Lopez publicly posted the official sanctioning certificates and they clearly state "WBC Lightweight Franchise world title." It is the WBC's equivalent of the WBA's Super world title or the WBO's Super world title.

That's because it is not available to all fighters in all divisions.

The WBO's Super world title isn't available to all fighters in all divisions and the WBA's Super world title wasn't available to all fighters in all divisions for many years.

Kambosos has a franchise title. Taylor and Canelo have world titles.

That's false. Kambosos has a Franchise world title, a Super world title and two regular world titles. Canelo has two Super world titles and two regular world titles. Taylor has one Super world title and three regular world titles. What makes them all undisputed is that they are the top world champions of every organization.

Both belts can't be valid for undisputed.

You're wrong. Some undisputed champions have held regular WBA world titles while others have held WBA super world titles. Some undisputed champions have held regular WBO world titles while others have held WBO super world titles. What makes you undisputed champion is having all four organizations regard you as their top world champion.

Why did Canelo refuse the franchise at 168?

Because he didn't want the WBC to go crown a regular champion in the division. His mandatory wasn't going to be due any time soon, so he'd gain absolutely nothing at that point by becoming Franchise world champion.

Once again your argument is weak and made up. You really need to try to understand the fundamentals here. Im done now because your struggling with this and I'm fed up explaining. Stay safe.

You lied about whether the orgs recognized the Franchise world title. Then you lied and made false accusations about me when the real problem was that you didn't know how to read. Because I won't let you bully me, you just ****posted a bunch of falsehoods and have declared that you're going to run and hide, which is very convenient.

It's not my fault you started watching boxing yesterday and don't know what undisputed champion means. Tank and Haney are regular champions. Kambosos is the top world champion of all four orgs. None of the orgs disagree on who the champion is. Therefore, he's undisputed champion because no organization is dis*****g it. Stop inventing new definitions for undisputed champion to fit your agenda.

[Marchegiano]

This is what undisputed looks like:

WBO
JR. WELTERWEIGHT (140 lbs) (63.50 kgs) CHAMPION JOSH TAYLOR
CHAMPIONS
JOSH TAYLOR WBA
JOSH TAYLOR IBF
JOSH TAYLOR WBC
Notice no dispute. All Josh, so says everyone for everyone.

This is not what undisputed looks like:
WBO
LIGHTWEIGHT (135 lbs) (61.24 kgs) CHAMPION GEORGE KAMBOSOS, JR.
CHAMPIONS
GEORGE KAMBOSOS, JR. WBA
GEORGE KAMBOSOS, JR. IBF
DEVIN HANEY WBC


Again, undisputed:

WBA SUPER CHAMPION	JOSH TAYLOR		GBR
	WBC-WBO-IBF CHAMPION
WBA WORLD CHAMPION	GERVONTA DAVIS		USA

Notice, the only champion mentioned is not mentioned in the WBO. Making Davis's World title a WBA claim to the world title. Not officially recognized by the whole of the sport.

Not undisputed:

WBA SUPER CHAMPION	GEORGE KAMBOSOS JR		AUS
	WBO-IBF CHAMPION
WBA WORLD CHAMPION	GERVONTA DAVIS		USA
Won Title	12-28-19

WBC DEVIN HANEY

Notice Haney is on both the WBO and WBA charts as the WBC champion and George is not? Nor is Tank. Most people understand why regulars are not considered "real" champions but I'm going to keep hammering that just to keep clear of the whole it doesn't work that way bull. Tanks is not a real WBA champion not because the WBA says he isn't. The WBA says they have two. The WBO says there's just one, George, so, no one sees Tank as a legitimate WBA champion. You see where I am going with this?


Undisputed:
IBF
CHAMPION:
JOSH TAYLOR
WBA: JOSH TAYLOR
WBC: JOSH TAYLOR
WBO: JOSH TAYLOR
Mmm, that's good consistency. All Josh, by everyone, for everyone.

And again, am example of a title in dispute:
IBF
CHAMPION:
GEORGE KAMBOSOS JR
WBA: GEORGE KAMBOSOS JR
WBC: DEVIN HANEY
WBO: GEORGE KAMBOSOS JR
Not one name. Not one face.




The IBF, WBO, and WBA all agree, Josh is the only champion is his division. They also all agree the world champion representing the WBC is Haney. Not Kambosos. Even though they have their belts on him, and there's no way one can say they simply have not updated given Haney was already strapped.

There are franchises and cases contrary, there are divisions where there's a franchise and a wbc champion and it's the franchise that has the recognition from the other 3 majors, and I think the ratings are up to date enough for that to not be an excuse, but none of that means Haney doesn't have a dispute for Kambosos. I literally copied and pasted it. All having a franchise be chose over a wbc champion in another division means is that champion has universal recognition as the WBC champion. It legitimizes the franchise as a title, but it doesn't address this very clear dispute in recognition.

What I'm saying is if he wasn't disputed they wouldn't have two names and just because in other divisions a franchise champion has recognition doesn't mean anyone with a franchise title is automatically universally recognized. It just means the franchise title is now a recognized title and those with it might be recognized as the WBC champion by the other 3, however, clearly, that does not mean the end of WBC champions being recognized as the WBC champion by the other 3.

Bringing it back to the WBO:

JR. BANTAMWEIGHT(115 lbs) (52.16 kgs)
CHAMPION
KAZUTO IOKA JPN
CHAMPIONS
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA WBA
JERWIN ANCAJAS IBF
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA WBC

Juan is a Franchise champion. We have to accept the franchise title as legitimate because here we have the WBO legitimizing it. We also have the WBO legitimizing Juan.

So why is Haney the one the WBO legitimizes as the WBC champion?

I haven't any idea, I am legitimately asking. Why is Haney legitimized?

As far as dispute, clearly. As far as legitimate title, both versions are legitimate because both versions are recognized in a situation where there other one has a holder. I won't accept Josh has no franchise, X is a franchise so all franchise are recognized. Neither Josh, nor Juan, changes the fact that every major body recognizes Devin and not George.

That has to be explained and until someone does it's pretty clear Kambosos is not an undisputed champion.