Comments Thread For: WBC Boss Attempts to Clarify Franchise Designation; Says Kambosos Should Be Regarded As 'Undisputed'

[Akutalee]

Just stop explaining he doesn’t know much about boxing

This is what undisputed looks like:

WBO
JR. WELTERWEIGHT (140 lbs) (63.50 kgs) CHAMPION JOSH TAYLOR
CHAMPIONS
JOSH TAYLOR WBA
JOSH TAYLOR IBF
JOSH TAYLOR WBC
Notice no dispute. All Josh, so says everyone for everyone.

This is not what undisputed looks like:
WBO
LIGHTWEIGHT (135 lbs) (61.24 kgs) CHAMPION GEORGE KAMBOSOS, JR.
CHAMPIONS
GEORGE KAMBOSOS, JR. WBA
GEORGE KAMBOSOS, JR. IBF
DEVIN HANEY WBC


Again, undisputed:

WBA SUPER CHAMPION	JOSH TAYLOR		GBR
	WBC-WBO-IBF CHAMPION
WBA WORLD CHAMPION	GERVONTA DAVIS		USA

Notice, the only champion mentioned is not mentioned in the WBO. Making Davis's World title a WBA claim to the world title. Not officially recognized by the whole of the sport.

Not undisputed:

WBA SUPER CHAMPION	GEORGE KAMBOSOS JR		AUS
	WBO-IBF CHAMPION
WBA WORLD CHAMPION	GERVONTA DAVIS		USA
Won Title	12-28-19

WBC DEVIN HANEY

Notice Haney is on both the WBO and WBA charts as the WBC champion and George is not? Nor is Tank. Most people understand why regulars are not considered "real" champions but I'm going to keep hammering that just to keep clear of the whole it doesn't work that way bull. Tanks is not a real WBA champion not because the WBA says he isn't. The WBA says they have two. The WBO says there's just one, George, so, no one sees Tank as a legitimate WBA champion. You see where I am going with this?


Undisputed:
IBF
CHAMPION:
JOSH TAYLOR
WBA: JOSH TAYLOR
WBC: JOSH TAYLOR
WBO: JOSH TAYLOR
Mmm, that's good consistency. All Josh, by everyone, for everyone.

And again, am example of a title in dispute:
IBF
CHAMPION:
GEORGE KAMBOSOS JR
WBA: GEORGE KAMBOSOS JR
WBC: DEVIN HANEY
WBO: GEORGE KAMBOSOS JR
Not one name. Not one face.




The IBF, WBO, and WBA all agree, Josh is the only champion is his division. They also all agree the world champion representing the WBC is Haney. Not Kambosos. Even though they have their belts on him, and there's no way one can say they simply have not updated given Haney was already strapped.

There are franchises and cases contrary, there are divisions where there's a franchise and a wbc champion and it's the franchise that has the recognition from the other 3 majors, and I think the ratings are up to date enough for that to not be an excuse, but none of that means Haney doesn't have a dispute for Kambosos. I literally copied and pasted it. All having a franchise be chose over a wbc champion in another division means is that champion has universal recognition as the WBC champion. It legitimizes the franchise as a title, but it doesn't address this very clear dispute in recognition.

What I'm saying is if he wasn't disputed they wouldn't have two names and just because in other divisions a franchise champion has recognition doesn't mean anyone with a franchise title is automatically universally recognized. It just means the franchise title is now a recognized title and those with it might be recognized as the WBC champion by the other 3, however, clearly, that does not mean the end of WBC champions being recognized as the WBC champion by the other 3.

Bringing it back to the WBO:

JR. BANTAMWEIGHT(115 lbs) (52.16 kgs)
CHAMPION
KAZUTO IOKA JPN
CHAMPIONS
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA WBA
JERWIN ANCAJAS IBF
JUAN FRANCISCO ESTRADA WBC

Juan is a Franchise champion. We have to accept the franchise title as legitimate because here we have the WBO legitimizing it. We also have the WBO legitimizing Juan.

So why is Haney the one the WBO legitimizes as the WBC champion?

I haven't any idea, I am legitimately asking. Why is Haney legitimized?

As far as dispute, clearly. As far as legitimate title, both versions are legitimate because both versions are recognized in a situation where there other one has a holder. I won't accept Josh has no franchise, X is a franchise so all franchise are recognized. Neither Josh, nor Juan, changes the fact that every major body recognizes Devin and not George.

That has to be explained and until someone does it's pretty clear Kambosos is not an undisputed champion.

[mexiFistology]

So you've just explained lineal. Well done. That's not undisputed though.

Well it doesn’t matter what you or other Haney manfans say, the only thing that matters is what the WBC presidents says and he says they recognize Kambosos as their true wbc lightweight champion, and since he has the rest of the belts that translates to Undisputed champion. Move on

[WBC WBA IBF]

Juan is a Franchise champion. We have to accept the franchise title as legitimate because here we have the WBO legitimizing it. We also have the WBO legitimizing Juan.

So why is Haney the one the WBO legitimizes as the WBC champion?

I haven't any idea, I am legitimately asking. Why is Haney legitimized?

The answer is very simple. You've put way more thought into what the WBA, IBF and WBO list for the WBC in their ratings than they have.

But we do know this, the IBF is very strict about only allowing their title to be unified with what they view as the real champion of a rival organization. The IBF absolutely refuses to sanction a fight for their title if a secondary title of another organization is on the line. So the very fact that the IBF has now sanctioned two different fights that had the WBC Franchise world title on the line proves the IBF views the Franchise world title as the WBC's top title. If the IBF viewed Haney's belt as the higher title, they wouldn't allow the IBF title to be on the line in a fight that's also for the Franchise world title.

That has to be explained and until someone does it's pretty clear Kambosos is not an undisputed champion.

You're trying to create your own definition of "undisputed champion" that differs from the commonly accepted meaning of the term that goes back decades.

You're also trying to strip the WBC of the right to decide for themselves who their champion is.

"Undisputed champion" means the recognized organizations have the same champion and aren't dis*****g who the champion is. Kambosos is the champion of all four organizations. The WBC says he's their top champion. The WBA says he's their top champion. The IBF says he's their top champion. The WBO says he's their top champion. There's no dispute.

Your position of, "well the WBO isn't sure if he's the WBC's top champion" is irrelevant. The WBO can use that as a reason to strip Kambosos, but if they don't strip Kambosos, you can't use it as a reason for why Kambosos isn't undisputed champion.

[Monty Fisto]

Well it doesn’t matter what you or other Haney manfans say, the only thing that matters is what the WBC presidents says and he says they recognize Kambosos as their true wbc lightweight champion, and since he has the rest of the belts that translates to Undisputed champion. Move on

If the WBC President had said Kambosos is the WBC's true champion and Devin Haney is not, you might have a point. He didn't say this though, did he?

As much as you want to put the words into his mouth, what he actually said was:

"Devin Haney has the WBC lightweight title, he is the pride of the WBC champion. He has grown into being a tremendous champion. He defeated Gamboa, defeated Linares, just had a great outing with JoJo Diaz." That really doesn't sound like he's downgrading Haney at all.

Maybe he said Kambosos was above that though in unambiguous terms. Let's see: "As I’ve said, it’s a new concept. Kambosos defeated Lopez who defeated Lomachenko, so I do believe [Kambosos] is due recognition as undisputed champion…"

If Kambosos was the WBC's clear champion, it wouldn't be a new concept, just a new title for an old concept. If he is definitely saying Kambosos is champion, why wouldn't he just plain say that? He doesn't though, he uses mealy-mouth, ambiguous terms. Rather than Kambosos is the WBC champion, or the WBC recognises Kambosos as undisputed, he says Kambosos is due recognition as undisputed.

It's like saying Joe Schmoe is due recognition as Nobel peace prize winner. Doesn't mean you've won it.

Sulaiman needs to clearly state: who is the WBC's champ and who is not. He won't though. All his words seem to say both Haney and Kambosos are champ. We know they can't both be champ, but Sulaiman apparently thinks we are idiots.

[Jsmooth9876]

They should have just called the Franchise champ the super champ instead and made the other one the regular champ that way the super champ would always be the "real" champ of the divisions that those belts were in. The Franchise belt was made for Canelo because they didn't want to ever have to force a mandatory on him and they couldn't afford to lose the sanctioning fees from his fights.

Imagine if boxing just had one major title in each division how nice it would be. You wouldn't have guys chirping about being ducked and a champion when they literally won the belt through email

[deathofaclown]

Just remove Haney’s belt and call Kambosos the WBC champ and be done with. It’s not like Haney beat anyone for the belt. Just revoke it by email like it was handled by email, then everyone knows where they stand.

the franchise garbage is pointless.

[deathofaclown]

I miss the days when audley harrison was the wbf HW champion of the world.

Or Hatton the WBU champ, although to be fair he did go on to win legitimate titles.

Still, all these “regular” and “interim” titles are no better than WBU, WBF etc..

[Rodtang]

That's false. Teofimo Lopez publicly posted the official sanctioning certificates and they clearly state "WBC Lightweight Franchise world title." It is the WBC's equivalent of the WBA's Super world title or the WBO's Super world title.




The WBO's Super world title isn't available to all fighters in all divisions and the WBA's Super world title wasn't available to all fighters in all divisions for many years.




That's false. Kambosos has a Franchise world title, a Super world title and two regular world titles. Canelo has two Super world titles and two regular world titles. Taylor has one Super world title and three regular world titles. What makes them all undisputed is that they are the top world champions of every organization.




You're wrong. Some undisputed champions have held regular WBA world titles while others have held WBA super world titles. Some undisputed champions have held regular WBO world titles while others have held WBO super world titles. What makes you undisputed champion is having all four organizations regard you as their top world champion.




Because he didn't want the WBC to go crown a regular champion in the division. His mandatory wasn't going to be due any time soon, so he'd gain absolutely nothing at that point by becoming Franchise world champion.




You lied about whether the orgs recognized the Franchise world title. Then you lied and made false accusations about me when the real problem was that you didn't know how to read. Because I won't let you bully me, you just ****posted a bunch of falsehoods and have declared that you're going to run and hide, which is very convenient.

It's not my fault you started watching boxing yesterday and don't know what undisputed champion means. Tank and Haney are regular champions. Kambosos is the top world champion of all four orgs. None of the orgs disagree on who the champion is. Therefore, he's undisputed champion because no organization is dis*****g it. Stop inventing new definitions for undisputed champion to fit your agenda.

I'm hoping you have some technical knowledge of the sport, so that when you sit down and watch it you understand what's going on. Because you need something man. Because as far as boxing politics is concerned, you have no clue. Just a made up agenda. There are so many inaccuracies in your comments, it's beyond belief. So much so that im not gonna keep addressing them because your just not getting it and thats the bottom line. Still you have your belief, even if totally wrong and I respect you have your opinion.

[Rodtang]

Well it doesn’t matter what you or other Haney manfans say, the only thing that matters is what the WBC presidents says and he says they recognize Kambosos as their true wbc lightweight champion, and since he has the rest of the belts that translates to Undisputed champion. Move on

Except that the other 3 Presidents say they dont recognize it as the majority of sensible boxing fans dont. Canelo doesnt recognize it, which is why he refused it and took a mandatory against Yildrim. In order to properly secure undisputed. And oh look. Nobody is dis*****g it. Isn't that a miracle? No it's basic actually but there are people out there that just have no clue. And Sulieman can see that those fool's will give his corruption credence. The man is boxings cancer. Still here, not going anywhere.

[Marchegiano]

The answer is very simple. You've put way more thought into what the WBA, IBF and WBO list for the WBC in their ratings than they have.

But we do know this, the IBF is very strict about only allowing their title to be unified with what they view as the real champion of a rival organization. The IBF absolutely refuses to sanction a fight for their title if a secondary title of another organization is on the line. So the very fact that the IBF has now sanctioned two different fights that had the WBC Franchise world title on the line proves the IBF views the Franchise world title as the WBC's top title. If the IBF viewed Haney's belt as the higher title, they wouldn't allow the IBF title to be on the line in a fight that's also for the Franchise world title.




You're trying to create your own definition of "undisputed champion" that differs from the commonly accepted meaning of the term that goes back decades.

You're also trying to strip the WBC of the right to decide for themselves who their champion is.

"Undisputed champion" means the recognized organizations have the same champion and aren't dis*****g who the champion is. Kambosos is the champion of all four organizations. The WBC says he's their top champion. The WBA says he's their top champion. The IBF says he's their top champion. The WBO says he's their top champion. There's no dispute.

Your position of, "well the WBO isn't sure if he's the WBC's top champion" is irrelevant. The WBO can use that as a reason to strip Kambosos, but if they don't strip Kambosos, you can't use it as a reason for why Kambosos isn't undisputed champion.

1.) Cross recognition is in the post you're responding to. You see Tank on no one else's ratings as WBA champion but the WBA because the WBA does not, actually, have the power to tell the other bodies what is and is not a legitimate world title. Ain't no silvers or gold being listed by anyone but the belt issuers for silver and gold. No, they don't have the ability to make new titles and force acceptance on the rest of the sport.

By official WBA documentation they have 5 world champions as does the WBC. No argues the legitimacy of WBA reg, because it has none, despite the WBA's stance on their own title. No one cares about the WBC Silver, no interims which are internally equal to the world title, no recess champions which are also internally equal to, despite the orgs that issue those illegitimate titles claiming they are legitimate.

2.) It's too bad the WBC's claim is in dispute by every majot body who isn't the WBC isn't it? The WBC also says:
a WBC Interim World Championship shall be considered a true WBC World title for all purposes - Documentos – World Boxing Council (wbcboxing.com)
The WBC may award the Diamond Championship to recognize the most extraordinary and elite boxer in a division - Documentos – World Boxing Council (wbcboxing.com)
In its discretion, on such terms and conditions as it may impose, the WBC may award WBC Silver Championships of the World in each weight division. - Documentos – World Boxing Council (wbcboxing.com)
The WBC Champion Emeritus recognition is the highest of honors the WBC grants to any boxer- Documentos – World Boxing Council (wbcboxing.com)
The Franchise Boxer is a special designation and status which the WBC may bestow to a current WBC World Champion, who is also an elite boxer, and who has achieved and maintains the highest of statures in the sport- Documentos – World Boxing Council (wbcboxing.com)

But the WBC totes gets to bring universally recognized belts into existence.


3.) Official documentation is far more "proof" than take yer word for it. You ever get your IBF statement for final elim? Alright bud, are you looking at an official IBF statement presently? Disregarding it? Hmm. Seems like what you use for "proof" would be anything difficult to gain. Shall we email the ratings boards and ask them if they're just too lazy or ****** to be consistent? How much you gonna stand behind that line while telling Redeemer he needs official documents?

The WBO's ratings are official WBO documents dealing with the subject. You are not.