Ruiz/Wilder

[_original_]

If you look at the prospective odds for Joshua-Wilder. It’s 4/6 AJ, 6/5 Wilder. Joshua was still a 1/3 favourite against Ruiz despite Ruiz dropping him 4 times in the previous fight. Wilder would definitely be the favourite with the bookies.

Ruiz is a C level fighter at best man, aside from an upset win over AJ, who else has he ever beat? I know people like to sh** on Wilder’s resume but he does have 3 wins over guys ranked top 5. Aside from AJ, Ruiz has never even beat a top 10 HW.

Thanks for bringing in some stats but as of right now, I don’t see Wilder being the favorite after suffering brutal back to back losses. Things could change if Wilder gets a few wins under his belt I suppose. Ruiz is set to return and is with one of the best teams in boxing, Wilders career could be over for all we know.

Calling Ruiz C level is out of line. That would make Wilder a C level guy as well for getting stopped twice by a guy with little pop. Ruiz has a stoppage win over AJ, that’s far better than anything on Wilders resume. I, and several other fans and journalists, had him beating Joseph Parker as well. That’s also better than anything on Wilders record. Ortiz is a good win for Wilder but what else there besides that?

[WBC WBA IBF]

I have a theory here: I think both guys think the other guy is "easy money." Wilder knows Ruiz doesn't play hide and seek in the ring... So he will get opportunities, and will not have to try to find Ruiz. Ruiz has confidence in his chin and knows he can outbox and in his estimation, knock Wilder out with his own heavy hands.

I agree both see the fight as winnable and both want the fight. It just doesn't make any sense to do the fight next.

Wilder is WBC #1. Ruiz is WBC #3. Joyce is WBC #2, but is also WBO #1 and targeting either a mandatory for the WBO or a voluntary for the WBC. If he goes the WBO route or if he fights Fury next as a voluntary, it moves Ruiz up to #2.

At that point you just wait. Wait for the belts to get splintered after an undisputed fight, or for Fury to go crazy and retire, or for someone to get hurt, etc. Whether it's Wilder vs Ruiz for the vacant world title, or for the interim world title, or a final eliminator to become mandatory, either way you want to wait until they are 1 and 2 and something tangible is at stake. PBC controls zero heavyweight world titles right now. They're getting Wilder or Ruiz in position for the WBC and Martin or Ortiz in position for the IBF. Strategically, it's just a terrible time to have Wilder fight Ruiz.

[Earl-Hickey]

I am confident Ruiz could beat Wilder.

Now if he comes in heavy and Wilder puts in a stiverne 1 type performance then Wilder takes it, but if Ruiz has at least some mobility I can see him getting inside and playing pinball with wilders head.

Also Wilder only has 3 rounds of stamina in hard fights so there's that.

[Earl-Hickey]

I have a theory here: I think both guys think the other guy is "easy money." Wilder knows Ruiz doesn't play hide and seek in the ring... So he will get opportunities, and will not have to try to find Ruiz. Ruiz has confidence in his chin and knows he can outbox and in his estimation, knock Wilder out with his own heavy hands.

Ruiz has the quickest hands in the division and he is usually defensively responsible with decent foot speed. Wilder just has to come in lighter than last time imo. Good fight.

Wilder would be approaching 37 years old by the time this fight comes around, we haven't seen him use movement in a fight since he was in his early 30s and I don't know if he still can tbh.

[famicommander]

I have a theory here: I think both guys think the other guy is "easy money." Wilder knows Ruiz doesn't play hide and seek in the ring... So he will get opportunities, and will not have to try to find Ruiz. Ruiz has confidence in his chin and knows he can outbox and in his estimation, knock Wilder out with his own heavy hands.

Ruiz has the quickest hands in the division and he is usually defensively responsible with decent foot speed. Wilder just has to come in lighter than last time imo. Good fight.

Ruiz doesn't have heavy hands at all, though.

He couldn't even stop the ghost of Siarhei Liakhovich after he'd already been knocked out by Shannon Briggs, Deontay Wilder (who left him a twitch mess on the canvas inside a round), Bryant Jennings, and Robert Helenius. He also couldn't stop 40 year old Chris Arreola, who had been previously stopped by Wilder, Bermane Stiverne, and Vitali Klitschko.

People just think he hits hard because of what he did to Joshua, but that fight said more about Joshua's chin than Ruiz's power.

[billeau2]

I agree both see the fight as winnable and both want the fight. It just doesn't make any sense to do the fight next.

Wilder is WBC #1. Ruiz is WBC #3. Joyce is WBC #2, but is also WBO #1 and targeting either a mandatory for the WBO or a voluntary for the WBC. If he goes the WBO route or if he fights Fury next as a voluntary, it moves Ruiz up to #2.

At that point you just wait. Wait for the belts to get splintered after an undisputed fight, or for Fury to go crazy and retire, or for someone to get hurt, etc. Whether it's Wilder vs Ruiz for the vacant world title, or for the interim world title, or a final eliminator to become mandatory, either way you want to wait until they are 1 and 2 and something tangible is at stake. PBC controls zero heavyweight world titles right now. They're getting Wilder or Ruiz in position for the WBC and Martin or Ortiz in position for the IBF. Strategically, it's just a terrible time to have Wilder fight Ruiz.

That makes sense.

[billeau2]

Ruiz doesn't have heavy hands at all, though.

He couldn't even stop the ghost of Siarhei Liakhovich after he'd already been knocked out by Shannon Briggs, Deontay Wilder (who left him a twitch mess on the canvas inside a round), Bryant Jennings, and Robert Helenius. He also couldn't stop 40 year old Chris Arreola, who had been previously stopped by Wilder, Bermane Stiverne, and Vitali Klitschko.

People just think he hits hard because of what he did to Joshua, but that fight said more about Joshua's chin than Ruiz's power.

Ruiz has fast hands and he gets his body behind his shots so his shots are pretty heavy. Wilder left Ruiz on the canvas? No... I don't think so. And BTW did you see the fight where Briggs did that to Liakhovich? It was literally the last seconds of the last round. Arreola fought a great fight and was in great condition for that fight, did you see that fight? You sound like a guy who looked up some fights and didn't actually see them. Ruiz is a talented fighter and he stopped Joshua with his "not so heavy hands" lol. His only other loss was to Parker I believe in a fight many people thought he won.

[billeau2]

Wilder would be approaching 37 years old by the time this fight comes around, we haven't seen him use movement in a fight since he was in his early 30s and I don't know if he still can tbh.

Hes got very fast feet... whether he maintains that edge or not, benching a lot of weight, putting on additional weight do not appear to help his speed of foot, nor his punching power.

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

Thanks for bringing in some stats but as of right now, I don’t see Wilder being the favorite after suffering brutal back to back losses. Things could change if Wilder gets a few wins under his belt I suppose. Ruiz is set to return and is with one of the best teams in boxing, Wilders career could be over for all we know.

Calling Ruiz C level is out of line. That would make Wilder a C level guy as well for getting stopped twice by a guy with little pop. Ruiz has a stoppage win over AJ, that’s far better than anything on Wilders resume. I, and several other fans and journalists, had him beating Joseph Parker as well. That’s also better than anything on Wilders record. Ortiz is a good win for Wilder but what else there besides that?

Ruiz is blatantly a C level fighter. He has one singular respectable win and then lost decisively to that same fighter in the rematch. Who’s he beat above C level man? Name one top 10, even top 20 guy he’s beat besides AJ?

Wilder was stopped by the universally ranked #1 Heavyweight in the world. There’s absolutely no shame in that. He dropped him twice too, so it’s not like he was non-competitive in that matchup.

The way I look at it. Fury is A level, Usyk is potentially A level too. Wilder and AJ are B level and the rest are C level guys. The HW division is weak as f***.

[famicommander]

Ruiz has fast hands and he gets his body behind his shots so his shots are pretty heavy. Wilder left Ruiz on the canvas? No... I don't think so. And BTW did you see the fight where Briggs did that to Liakhovich? It was literally the last seconds of the last round. Arreola fought a great fight and was in great condition for that fight, did you see that fight? You sound like a guy who looked up some fights and didn't actually see them. Ruiz is a talented fighter and he stopped Joshua with his "not so heavy hands" lol. His only other loss was to Parker I believe in a fight many people thought he won.

I watched all the fights in question.

And I didn't say Wilder left Ruiz a twitching mess on the canvas. I said he left Liakhovich a twitching mess on the canvas, which he did.

Joshua is literally the only notable fighter Ruiz ever stopped. His next three best opponents were Parker, 40 year old Arreola, and a very shot Liakhovich and he didn't even put a dent into any of them. Despite Liakhovich having already been knocked out five times before the Ruiz fight and twice since.