Could Terence Have Beat Floyd

[Carpe Diem]

A lot of ways to look at this match up. I always try precedent first: Im thinking here of the Zab Judah fight. Judah had a lot of the natural gifts and talents of a Crawford and was fighting well until he characteristically lost his concentration. To me Floyd, as talented as he was, was not principally a pure physical talent, like Ali, Jones, even Judah. He was fast enough for sure, but Floyd's game was more about accuracy, timing (perhaps his greatest attribute... him and Ward) and defensive ability.

Crawford has borderline Jones type athletic ability and he is very strong physically. Let me just be very clear here: On a chart if there was a cut off point concerning really elite physical ability alone... I might have at the top of the chart Jones, whitaker and Ali... A little more towards the middle guys like Robinson, and somewhere just over and into the section Crawford, and Judah... BUT in the next section down I would have Mayweather in there, so even with the advantage Crawford holds, I believe he isn't too far away, its not such an advantage over Mayweather...But it is there and just like Floyd had some problems with Zab Judah, Crawford would present a physical challenge of the same order. Speed kills, and Mayweather would have to have his timing down!

So who wins? In this day and age, probably both guys pot shot each other. Nobody really "wins" so much as one guy who has the judges on his side gets the decision. If these guys really fought each other? Like when fighters went hammer and tongs, took risks, etc. I think Crawford at anything over 135 wins... At 135 and below Floyd wins. Floyd was a phenom at 135... Hes short listed... Yes Guys like Pep, Armstrong certainly Robinson (better at light weight than Middle IMO) beat Floyd... and maybe a handful, or so of other guys...

What a joke.

[Roadblock]

The difference between Floyd and TC that would make all the difference in the world is defense and foot speed, Floyd is too silky smooth with unreal conditioning just too much of everything, Im mean I like TC but Porter is no yardstick to a Floyd Mayweather, Floyd would beat the brakes of Shawn and people would call it a cherry-pick, I haven't seen anything from TC yet that equals Mayweather.

[GrandpaBernard]

A lot of ways to look at this match up. I always try precedent first: Im thinking here of the Zab Judah fight. Judah had a lot of the natural gifts and talents of a Crawford and was fighting well until he characteristically lost his concentration. To me Floyd, as talented as he was, was not principally a pure physical talent, like Ali, Jones, even Judah. He was fast enough for sure, but Floyd's game was more about accuracy, timing (perhaps his greatest attribute... him and Ward) and defensive ability.

Crawford has borderline Jones type athletic ability and he is very strong physically. Let me just be very clear here: On a chart if there was a cut off point concerning really elite physical ability alone... I might have at the top of the chart Jones, whitaker and Ali... A little more towards the middle guys like Robinson, and somewhere just over and into the section Crawford, and Judah... BUT in the next section down I would have Mayweather in there, so even with the advantage Crawford holds, I believe he isn't too far away, its not such an advantage over Mayweather...But it is there and just like Floyd had some problems with Zab Judah, Crawford would present a physical challenge of the same order. Speed kills, and Mayweather would have to have his timing down!

So who wins? In this day and age, probably both guys pot shot each other. Nobody really "wins" so much as one guy who has the judges on his side gets the decision. If these guys really fought each other? Like when fighters went hammer and tongs, took risks, etc. I think Crawford at anything over 135 wins... At 135 and below Floyd wins. Floyd was a phenom at 135... Hes short listed... Yes Guys like Pep, Armstrong certainly Robinson (better at light weight than Middle IMO) beat Floyd... and maybe a handful, or so of other guys...

Why rate Terence athleticism so highly

the one physical department he has more of than Floyd is power

maybe strength too

Floyd quicker reflexes

[Hype job]

No, Crawford way too hittable.

[GrandpaBernard]

The difference between Floyd and TC that would make all the difference in the world is defense and foot speed, Floyd is too silky smooth with unreal conditioning just too much of everything, Im mean I like TC but Porter is no yardstick to a Floyd Mayweather, Floyd would beat the brakes of Shawn and people would call it a cherry-pick, I haven't seen anything from TC yet that equals Mayweather.

Terence is my favorite to watch today and I agree

Floyd rarely loss rounds. Terence often splits them

[billeau2]

What a joke.

Have you ever separated Jones from his athletic ability? Jones had reflexes off the charts among other things... But a lot of what Jones could do was his ability as a fighter. His ability to throw the left hook untelegraphed, His combinations, his method of moving from a crouch to spring and explode into his shots.

How about Ali? Take away his reflexes, his speed... what did Ali have? years of experience using footwork in unorthodox ways, including taught to him by martial artists, A great jab, understanding of Distance, an incredible Beard.

And finally why was Crawford in this category athletically? Crawford has the ability to fight and move backwards phenominally well... You can't train that but to a point. Your brain has to be able to set, punch and move fast while going back and Ray Robinson along with Ali were two masters of it... It is rare.

My point is I am not comparing the total package of Jones to Crawford, I am talking about purely athletic attributes alone. Some fighters have these rare attributes... Alone they do not do much... Look at Judah for example.

[billeau2]

Terence is my favorite to watch today and I agree

Floyd rarely loss rounds. Terence often splits them

Yet Castillo was a pressure Fighter and he gave Floyd fits... Like Porter was a pressure fighter. Madiana was a pressure guy with less of a real tank, and was able to beat Floyd up a bit. Porter would be a handful for Floyd... Crawford has it in him to win rounds... he just has a different approach.

[GrandpaBernard]

Yet Castillo was a pressure Fighter and he gave Floyd fits... Like Porter was a pressure fighter. Madiana was a pressure guy with less of a real tank, and was able to beat Floyd up a bit. Porter would be a handful for Floyd... Crawford has it in him to win rounds... he just has a different approach.

Terence isn’t above pressure fighters either

I had it 5-4 for T until the KO

Maidana has bigger power and accuracy to make up for his smaller gas tank

Floyd Porter would look most like Floyd-Jesus Chavez

they make Floyd work but how effective are they

[Roadblock]

Yet Castillo was a pressure Fighter and he gave Floyd fits... Like Porter was a pressure fighter. Madiana was a pressure guy with less of a real tank, and was able to beat Floyd up a bit. Porter would be a handful for Floyd... Crawford has it in him to win rounds... he just has a different approach.

Yet he boxed their ears of in rematches, sometimes Floyd was happy to slug it out he was never in trouble they just messy fights, yet when he wanted to be on a bike he was practically untouchable.

[billeau2]

Terence isn’t above pressure fighters either

I had it 5-4 for T until the KO

Maidana has bigger power and accuracy to make up for his smaller gas tank

Floyd Porter would look most like Floyd-Jesus Chavez

they make Floyd work but how effective are they

Yeah thats about how I had it. But Crawford was starting to catch Porter... Not being smothered so much.

Different qualities mean different things when we consider the totality of circumstances, attributes that a fighter is effective using in the ring. For a real bona fide pressure guy, the ability to press indefinitely is worth more than power and especially accuracy. The proof is in the pudding... If we ask who the better fighter was (since Porter retired lol) Maidana, or Porter... the truth is, you could make an argument that when broken down they were close... Im talking strictly their attributes in the ring... Porter got a lot farther though. I would say that the bigger gas tank was the better thing to have than the power and accuracy... I agree with you about Maidana having better power and accuracy, guy was kind of an underated fighter actually.

Heres an example of what I am talking about... Ray Robinson beat untold numbers of great boxers... Two guys that beat him up were not particularly good punchers, or very accurate... LaMotta and Fullmer... both guys who were pressure fighters. Actually the comparison of Madiana and Porter works perfectly for LaMotta and Fullmer... Most people would say Gene Fullmer was not on the level of Jake Lamotta, just like most people would probably say Porter is substantially more accomplished than Maidana... But it took Fullmer less fights to beat Ray Robinson... and it was all due to that one attribute... pure relentless pursuit. Keep this in mind though: You could find many many many well rounded fighters who could pressure as well as LaMotta/Fullmer, AND do a heck of a lot more! But it never would have been considered viable to fight the way a one dimensional pressure fighter would fight Robinson.

I think if Porter fought the proverbial "perfect fight" he could give Floyd some problems... But its hard to back that up... Hatton had fast feet and had been a talented pressure fighter, but his father & other management, had turned him into a dry humping, no risk taking mess. They had convinced him to virtually abandon all the things that made him an exceptional talent... certainly by the time Floyd fought him, he was shiat lol. It took Lamotta more than a few times to beat Robinson... lol. Could Shawn do so if he fought Floyd 5 times or so? I don't know...