Why Canelo and Pacquiao stand out more than Mayweather

[PRINCEKOOL]

It is up for debate on whether Manny Pacquiao stands out more than Floyd Mayweather 'But for sure Canelo Alvarez does not stand out more'. Alvarez has never really separated himself from the pack like the way Pacquiao & Mayweather did. There has never been a performance at elite level, where Alvarez made another elite level fighter looked levels below himself.

Alvarez was being out boxed by Amir Khan until the stoppage, Caleb Plant was giving him issues also. Who are the fighters in which Alvarez separates himself from? Only really fighters like Callum Smith of late, who in some ways took the fight at short notice. It is clear that Canelo Alvarez is a level below Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather in terms of pure ability and skill.

Canelo Alvarez routinely at world or elite level drops rounds, or gets out boxed. I have went on record before and stated that? It is not Canelo Alvarez's skill and technical ability which intimidates his opponents. It is his physical strength and punching power, that is NOW his main intimidating attribute in the middle weight divisions. And this is completely bizarre, because never before in history has a fighter came up from the lower weight divisions 'And made his physical strength and punching power his main game changing attribute'.

Tommy 'The Hit Man' Hearns, hit hard 'But he could still be pushed about by Marvin Hagler. David Haye hit hard at heavyweight, but still had issues with Heavyweights physically imposing themselves in a fight.

Modern day boxing is engineered in such a way these days, that being a multiple weight world champion 'In my opinion is not such a unique achievement'.

For 90% of boxing's history, boxers have been competing under the conditions of 'Same day weigh in's'.

So it would of been extremely difficult, more competitive and treacherous for fighters from the lower weight divisions 'If they wanted to move through the weight divisions'.

Every single fighter in each weight class, would be strong and extremely conditioned at the weight. Where as these days, you have fighters doing big weight cuts ether to stay in a weight class that they really should not be in 'And then you have fighters living and training more normally and moving up in weight, which gives you this illusion that they are doing something monumental'. When in reality they are just not weight draining themselves, and competing at their more natural weights.

Overall what makes a fighter stand out is 'Performance level'. It is not really entirely the number of belts or modern days statistics. It is the performance level, and the competitors a fighters has beaten that makes 'The truly supreme fighters stand out'.

Floyd Mayweather at the back end of his career, when he was not even at his best. Beat Canelo Alvarez 12-0 to 12-1, he beat Alvarez with his speed of mind, and calculation predominately. The Mayweather who fought Oscar De La Hoya probably would of stopped Canelo Alvarez due to being physically stronger. Even at the back end of Mayweather's career when, that unassuming physical strength he used to have was no longer as active 'He was still beating world class fighters, who were naturally bigger than him and stronger'.

Canelo Alvarez is a level below fighters such as Bernard Hopkins, Roy Jones Junior, Floyd Mayweather & Manny Pacquiao. All of these fighters at some stage in there career, have separated themselves clearly from another elite level fighter 'They have all separated themselves from the pack'.

Hopkins did it against Trinidad, Tarver, Pavlik. Roy Jones did it against James Toney, Ruiz, and then we all know what Mayweather & Pacquiao has achieved.

Canelo Alvarez has not quite separated himself from the pack, even though he is competing in a below par era. Fighters who are just world class level can take rounds off him, and they know they are going to be able to find him in a fight 'When fighters were competing against Hopkins, Jones, Mayweather at their peak. They not only posed a physical threat, but they were extremely difficult to solve 'To have success against them, was like trying to crack the enigma code'.

Floyd Mayweather solved Canelo Alvarez a long time ago, and he has not really gotten any better since then 'Not to the level people try and make out'. Alvarez has gotten bigger, and is competing against fighters who are not as good. Canelo Alvarez is a great fighter, and he most likely is pound for pound number 1 right now. But he is still a level below the past great fighters, that I have mentioned.

[sbbigmike]

Canelo boring to watch on the low

[hugh grant]

Name everything Mayweather did in his career that was unique. And I am not talking about salaries or PPV buys.

Name at least 1 thing he did that hasn't been done before him.

Before you answer, please go look up the definition of unique.

Pacquiao, 8 division champion in boxing. Literally unique. It has never been done before he did it.

Canelo, first Mexican to unify all the belts in a weight class. Literally unique. Never been done before. First fighter to unify 168. Never been done before, since the weight class' inception in the 80s. Mayweather would not have been the first American to unify a weight class, but he didn't even accomplish that.

Please tell me you know what unique even means. I assume you only speak English, so there should be no excuse as to why you don't know what the English word, unique, means. No excuse whatsoever.

Floyd is unique, the lengths he went to to preserve unbeaten record. His fans are unique also that they don't put value on anything boxers have did, unless floyd did it.
So winning titles in 8 divisions is no big deal, winning in opponents abackyard is no big deal, winning trilogies with peers is no achievement, winning titles older than anyone has ever did is not unique or of value.? But winning CW fights with green opponents or beating former light fyweights with 70 fights under belt gets their juices flowing boasting it's a great win? Then claim PACs a hypejob? So Floyd's best win is a hypejob they're now saying?

[-Kev-]

Here is Pac's ENTIRE WW+ resume -
Shot DLH*
Cotto*
Shot Clottey
Shot Margarito*
Shot Mosley
JMM 2x (1 fight too many )
Bradley 3x
Shot Rios
Shot Algieri*
MAY ( )
Vargas
HORN ( )
Shot Lucas
Shot Broner
Thurman (FINALLY ! A SOMEWHAT CREDIBLE WIN !)
UGAS ( )

19 fights
Looking at who he fought and WHEN HE FOUGHT THEM, how is it he has more than 1 loss ?????

I defy an honest fight fan to say these 19 fights are impressive.

You can nitpick any boxer’s resume in the last 100 years. Almost every big fight can get dismantled. And almost any big fight can be pushed as a great win.

[Toyman]

Manny vs Floyd true punch stats as per verified slow motion video:

Manny landed 120, Floyd landed 69. This was first conclusively demonstrated 6 years ago. It has not yet been refuted and never will be because its simply true.

Manny landed more punches statistically - and his punches were also visibly more impactful than floyd's little slaps. Manny was not hurt even once in the fight. Floyd was wobbled and visibly hurt at least twice.


Manny was injured (proven by accredited doctor post-fight), and denied a legal painkiller.

Floyd was on IVs (proven by the TUE), and the most logical conclusion is that this was used to mask PEDS.

What stands out is that floyd had 2 game-breaking advantages going into the fight (floyd being on illegal substances while his opponent was injured), and was still conclusively outboxed. The numbers do not lie.

[_original_]

It is up for debate on whether Manny Pacquiao stands out more than Floyd Mayweather 'But for sure Canelo Alvarez does not stand out more'. Alvarez has never really separated himself from the pack like the way Pacquiao & Mayweather did. There has never been a performance at elite level, where Alvarez made another elite level fighter looked levels below himself.

Alvarez was being out boxed by Amir Khan until the stoppage, Caleb Plant was giving him issues also. Who are the fighters in which Alvarez separates himself from? Only really fighters like Callum Smith of late, who in some ways took the fight at short notice. It is clear that Canelo Alvarez is a level below Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather in terms of pure ability and skill.

Canelo Alvarez routinely at world or elite level drops rounds, or gets out boxed. I have went on record before and stated that? It is not Canelo Alvarez's skill and technical ability which intimidates his opponents. It is his physical strength and punching power, that is NOW his main intimidating attribute in the middle weight divisions. And this is completely bizarre, because never before in history has a fighter came up from the lower weight divisions 'And made his physical strength and punching power his main game changing attribute'.

Tommy 'The Hit Man' Hearns, hit hard 'But he could still be pushed about by Marvin Hagler. David Haye hit hard at heavyweight, but still had issues with Heavyweights physically imposing themselves in a fight.

Modern day boxing is engineered in such a way these days, that being a multiple weight world champion 'In my opinion is not such a unique achievement'.

For 90% of boxing's history, boxers have been competing under the conditions of 'Same day weigh in's'.

So it would of been extremely difficult, more competitive and treacherous for fighters from the lower weight divisions 'If they wanted to move through the weight divisions'.

Every single fighter in each weight class, would be strong and extremely conditioned at the weight. Where as these days, you have fighters doing big weight cuts ether to stay in a weight class that they really should not be in 'And then you have fighters living and training more normally and moving up in weight, which gives you this illusion that they are doing something monumental'. When in reality they are just not weight draining themselves, and competing at their more natural weights.

Overall what makes a fighter stand out is 'Performance level'. It is not really entirely the number of belts or modern days statistics. It is the performance level, and competitors a fighters has beaten that makes 'The truly supreme fighters stand out'.

Floyd Mayweather at the back end of his career, when he was not even at his best. Beat Canelo Alvarez 12-0 to 12-1, and he beat Alvarez with his speed of mind, calculation predominately. The Mayweather who fought Oscar De La Hoya probably would of stopped Canelo Alvarez due to being physically stronger. Even at the back end of Mayweather's career when, that unassuming physical strength he used to have was no longer as active 'He was still beating world class fighters, who were naturally bigger than him and stronger'.

Canelo Alvarez is a level below fighters such as Bernard Hopkins, Roy Jones Junior, Floyd Mayweather & Manny Pacquiao. All of these fighters at some stage in there career, have separated themselves clearly from another elite level fighter 'They have all separated themselves from the pack'.

Hopkins did it against Trinidad, Tarver, Pavlik. Roy Jones did it against James Toney, Ruiz, and then we all know what Mayweather & Pacquiao has achieved.

Canelo Alvarez has not quite separated himself from the pack, even though he is competing in a below par era. Fighters who are just world class level can take rounds off him, and they know they are going to be able to find him in a fight 'When fighters were competing against Hopkins, Jones, Mayweather at their peak. They not only posed a physical threat, but they were extremely difficult to solve 'To have success against them, was like trying to crack the enigma code'.

Floyd Mayweather solved Canelo Alvarez a long time ago, and he has not really gotten any better since then 'Not to the level people try and make out'. Alvarez has gotten bigger, and is competing against fighters who are not as good. Canelo Alvarez is a great fighter, and he most likely is pound for pound number 1 right now. But he is still a level below the past great fighters, that I have mentioned.

Good post. This thread is utter garbage. Canelo is definitely the best fighter today but there is no case for him being in the same league as Floyd or Manny. Kev really fell off as a poster smh.

[Hustle]

Okay, yes, Mayweather beat them both. He is technically better than both, H2H. He literally went 2-0 vs them. Let’s get that out of the way. No matter how much anyone wants to scream robbery or controversy, the fact remains that Mayweather outboxed and outpointed both Canelo and Pacquiao.

Canelo is a legend. His career is already very unique, one of a kind. He is literally the only Mexican to unify all 4 belts in the 4 belt era. He is the first fighter to unify all belts at 168.

Mayweather didn’t really do anything “unique”. He is great, one of the best without a doubt, but what he did had already been done before him. 50-0, big deal, 1 more win than Marciano’s 49-0. JCC went 89-0-1 before losing, albeit with a highly padded record. Ricardo Lopez went 51-0. Calzaghe went 46-0.

Pacquiao also did something unique, never been done before, champion in 8 weight classes.

I am not saying Canelo and Pacquiao are greater than Mayweather, he beat them both. I am just saying they can say they did something that has never been done before in the 100+ years of professional boxing, Mayweather can’t say that. They stand out. They literally are the first of their kind. Mayweather can just say he is the PPV king. Highest paid athlete of his time. Great accomplishments that was done by the greats before him. But he can’t ever say he did something unique. That is not a knock on his career at all. It’s the truth.

People may bring up his fight vs GGG. But Mayweather also has a similar issue in his career vs Jose Luis Castillo and Maidana I. Pacquiao has the same sh/t, vs Marquez. Close fights vs the best, is not a detriment to one’s career. It’s actually great to see top fighters be tested. Boxing would be boring otherwise.

I have not witnessed many fighters who actually fight every single fighter that their critics ask them to fight. When they asked him to fight them. Like Canelo has. There has yet to be a fighter critics told Canelo he is scared of needs to fight, and Canelo doesn’t take on that challenge.

Who is next? Benavidez is the next one critics are hyping up. That’s how you know they ran out of fighters to hype up. Someone like Benavidez is getting hype now. The guy who fights with his chin out in the open, throws wide punches, has already been put on his ass, literally put on his ass, has already experienced a gift decision over an unknown fighter in Gavril, and has already shown to have stamina issues and has a tendency to punch him self out. This is who they are hyping now.

Personally, I want to see Canelo vs Bivol, Beterbiev and Smith Jr, because I have no interest in reading these awful critics’ excuses after Canelo brutally KO’s Benavidez. I do not want to read about how Benavidez was not ready, he was green, he’s not elite, never beat an elite, Canelo only fought him cause he’s inexperienced and chinny, etc. A bunch of crap. Might as well skip all that, fight Beterbiev and Bivol. Start with Joe Smith Jr as a first, to get a belt. Then unify with the other top guys Beterbiev and Bivol.

If Canelo fights Benavidez and KO’s him into oblivion, Canelo critics will say he beat no one, and that Benavidez was never elite to begin with and had already been exposed by Gavril. And they would be right. Benavidez literally does nothing for Canelo right now. A meaningless fight. Adds zero to Canelo’s HOF legacy.


Ring champion at 154, 160, 168. Next stop should be 175. Beat the best there, unify all the belts and retire.

Canelo has fought 5 hall of fame fighters

ggg age 35
Cotto age 35
Kovalev age 36
Mosley age 40
Mayweather age 36 (loss)

Let that sink in.

His biggest win is a controversial decision against a 36 year old golovkin.

His first ever title came at a catchweight of 150 against matthew hatton for a 154 title.

Then his first ever middleweight title came at a catchweight of 157 against cotto.


Just some facts for you when it comes to the truth of canelo career. Good fighter. No spectacular wins unless we counting the cherries like chavez, kirkland, khan, ylidrim, fielding, hatton.

Whenever he fights somebody prime he looks human. Lara, trout, plant, jacobs

[djtmal]

Yes, anything Floyd's never achieved floyd fans don't put value in it, even though the history of the sport does. You ask floyd to move up weight though and see what response you get something along the lines of" your just a hater wanting him to lose"? Fighting in people's backyards traditionally is something respected, but to Floyd's fans it's nothing only because floyd not achieved it.? But again the response is " your just a hater, or the money is in Vegas"? Well that's all good and well if floyd is a businessman but question is are you a legit champion or businessman which is it?

Floyd fans still boast about unbeaten records even though the world doesn't see floyd as unbeaten. And again how floyd conducted career to remain unbeaten isn't a concern for floyd fans, yet how PAC became 8 division champ is? Scrutinised in microscopic detail?

There is a lot of truth here.

He's too small when ggg called him out and was willing to come down to 154 a weight he held belts at, but its cool that he pulls a lightweight up two divisions and welches him on the scales.
Most guys who were on top for years go out still trying to fight the best guys possible not Floyd. The excuse for cherrypicking Berto and geez Conor McGregor to go 50-0 is its a reward for cherrypicking a shopworn Manny Pacquiao what kind of mess is that.
We've all seen the plethora of excuses that Big Dunn, Larry, Iron Dan, Roadblock, Bodybagz, etc. have put up. Combined these guys, have posted over 100,000 posts of excuses for Floyd.

[Hatesrats]

KXNG Canelo. Has ALOT of haterz

[Stuntman Mike]

It is up for debate on whether Manny Pacquiao stands out more than Floyd Mayweather 'But for sure Canelo Alvarez does not stand out more'. Alvarez has never really separated himself from the pack like the way Pacquiao & Mayweather did. There has never been a performance at elite level, where Alvarez made another elite level fighter looked levels below himself.

Alvarez was being out boxed by Amir Khan until the stoppage, Caleb Plant was giving him issues also. Who are the fighters in which Alvarez separates himself from? Only really fighters like Callum Smith of late, who in some ways took the fight at short notice. It is clear that Canelo Alvarez is a level below Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather in terms of pure ability and skill.

Canelo Alvarez routinely at world or elite level drops rounds, or gets out boxed. I have went on record before and stated that? It is not Canelo Alvarez's skill and technical ability which intimidates his opponents. It is his physical strength and punching power, that is NOW his main intimidating attribute in the middle weight divisions. And this is completely bizarre, because never before in history has a fighter came up from the lower weight divisions 'And made his physical strength and punching power his main game changing attribute'.

Tommy 'The Hit Man' Hearns, hit hard 'But he could still be pushed about by Marvin Hagler. David Haye hit hard at heavyweight, but still had issues with Heavyweights physically imposing themselves in a fight.

Modern day boxing is engineered in such a way these days, that being a multiple weight world champion 'In my opinion is not such a unique achievement'.

For 90% of boxing's history, boxers have been competing under the conditions of 'Same day weigh in's'.

So it would of been extremely difficult, more competitive and treacherous for fighters from the lower weight divisions 'If they wanted to move through the weight divisions'.

Every single fighter in each weight class, would be strong and extremely conditioned at the weight. Where as these days, you have fighters doing big weight cuts ether to stay in a weight class that they really should not be in 'And then you have fighters living and training more normally and moving up in weight, which gives you this illusion that they are doing something monumental'. When in reality they are just not weight draining themselves, and competing at their more natural weights.

Overall what makes a fighter stand out is 'Performance level'. It is not really entirely the number of belts or modern days statistics. It is the performance level, and competitors a fighters has beaten that makes 'The truly supreme fighters stand out'.

Floyd Mayweather at the back end of his career, when he was not even at his best. Beat Canelo Alvarez 12-0 to 12-1, and he beat Alvarez with his speed of mind, calculation predominately. The Mayweather who fought Oscar De La Hoya probably would of stopped Canelo Alvarez due to being physically stronger. Even at the back end of Mayweather's career when, that unassuming physical strength he used to have was no longer as active 'He was still beating world class fighters, who were naturally bigger than him and stronger'.

Canelo Alvarez is a level below fighters such as Bernard Hopkins, Roy Jones Junior, Floyd Mayweather & Manny Pacquiao. All of these fighters at some stage in there career, have separated themselves clearly from another elite level fighter 'They have all separated themselves from the pack'.

Hopkins did it against Trinidad, Tarver, Pavlik. Roy Jones did it against James Toney, Ruiz, and then we all know what Mayweather & Pacquiao has achieved.

Canelo Alvarez has not quite separated himself from the pack, even though he is competing in a below par era. Fighters who are just world class level can take rounds off him, and they know they are going to be able to find him in a fight 'When fighters were competing against Hopkins, Jones, Mayweather at their peak. They not only posed a physical threat, but they were extremely difficult to solve 'To have success against them, was like trying to crack the enigma code'.

Floyd Mayweather solved Canelo Alvarez a long time ago, and he has not really gotten any better since then 'Not to the level people try and make out'. Alvarez has gotten bigger, and is competing against fighters who are not as good. Canelo Alvarez is a great fighter, and he most likely is pound for pound number 1 right now. But he is still a level below the past great fighters, that I have mentioned.

This is a really good post the best I've seen in a long time and I 100 percent agree