Why Canelo and Pacquiao stand out more than Mayweather

[famicommander]

Floyd
24-0-0-0 against fighters who won at least one legitimate world title (big four, Ring, or lineal only; no "regular" or interim or IBO nonsense)
26-0-0-0 in world title fights
23-0-0-0 in lineal world title fights
12-0-0-0 against other lineal world champions
4-0-0-0 against fighters already in the Hall of Fame; obviously that number will go up as the years pass

Genaro Hernandez RTD 8
Gregorio Vargas UD 12
Diego Corrales TKO 10
Carlos Hernandez UD 12
Jesus Chavez RTD 9
Jose Luis Castillo UD 12
Jose Luis Castillo UD 12
DeMarcus Corley UD 12
Arturo Gatti RTD 6
Sharmba Mitchell TKO 6
Zab Judah UD 12
Carlos Baldomir UD 12
Oscar De La Hoya SD 12
Ricky Hatton TKO 10
Juan Manuel Marquez UD 12
Shane Mosley UD 12
Victor Ortiz KO 4
Miguel Cotto UD 12
Robert Guerrero UD 12
Canelo Alvarez MD 12 (let's be real, Floyd won every round)
Marcos Maidana MD 12
Marcos Maidana UD 12
Manny Pacquiao UD 12
Andre Berto UD 12

[TreyShaw]

I love Canelo but I just can’t put him in the same league as Mayweather or Pacquiao.

What elite fighter has Canelo dominated? None. That’s the true mark of a ATG talent and Canelo has yet to decisively defeat a truly elite fighter. Mayweather and Pacquiao both did. Hell, id say Andre award was closer to that level than Canelo.

Wtf are you on??

At only 20 freakin yrs old he beats Mosley-truly elite

Lara(only a sad hater thinks he lost that fight)truly elite

Cotto truly elite

ggg 2 clear win and truly elite

Jacobs truly elite

Callum Smith super 6 winner The ring #1 smw at the time Truly elite

Oh I get it they’re only truly elite before canelo beats them once he whoops them they are bums right?

Man gtfoh

[-Kev-]

I love Canelo but I just can’t put him in the same league as Mayweather or Pacquiao.

What elite fighter has Canelo dominated? None. That’s the true mark of a ATG talent and Canelo has yet to decisively defeat a truly elite fighter. Mayweather and Pacquiao both did. Hell, id say Andre award was closer to that level than Canelo.

Boxing, HOF, ATG, doesn't have to be about dominating anyone.

First, fans say it's all about fighting the best. When a fighter fights the best, all the best fighters he could fight, and wins, then the goal post is moved and he now needs to dominate all the elite fighters he fights.

It is no longer "Oh he needs to fight the elite fighters". "Oh he needs to fight all the elite fighters and win!". "Wait, no, hold on, he now needs to fight all the elite fighters, win, AND dominate them!"

This is why boxing as a top sport in the US, is dead. Americans don't even know what they want to see in a fighter. They are confused. So it died in the US and migrated to Europe. Because Americans don't know what the hell they want in a fighter.

With Mayweather it was, "oh he cherrypicked that's why he dominated!"

With Pacquiao it was, "oh he weightdrained and cherrypicked fighters that's why he dominated!"

Now with Canelo, who has fought elite fighters in their prime and at their weight, it's "Oh he fought the best fighters he could fight, in their prime but he didn't dominate them!"

Do you see how boxing can become an unbearable sport to discuss with Americans? They do not even know what they want to see in a fighter.

You have an amazing fighter, fighting the best fighters he could fight, in their prime, at the weight they want, when the critics ask for it, and he is given a tough fight or wins a decision in a close fight, and he is not good enough because of this.

Boxing fans clearly don't know what the heck they want in a fighter. Newsflash, boxing is hard. Boxing is a tough sport. No one is going to look perfect 100% of the time. The best fighters can look bad vs mediocre fighters, elite fighters, old fighters. Boxing is a tough sport to look good in 100% of the time.

You talk about "Mayweather dominated elites...". Name the elites he dominated in their prime. Name the HOF'ers he dominated in their prime. Tell me with a straight face that Mayweather vs Castillo and Maidana could not have gone to the other fighter in a close loss for Mayweather? Tell me underachieving Judah did not drop Mayweather?

Hell, Mayweather barely beat a past prime De La Hoya, who won 7-5 on one card, and lost 5-7 on another card.

You got 3 fighters, not even really elites, at the time, JLC #1 ranked but not elite/ not considered P4P one of the best, who could have narrowly beaten Mayweather. Castillo, De La Hoya, and Maidana. Did I think he won those 3 fights? Yes, I had him narrowly winning all 3, with Maidana really being the one that could have really gone to Maidana and I could not complain about it.

The fact is, none of these 3 fighters that gave Mayweather hell and almost gave him a loss were elites. Castillo was not a top 10 P4P fighter. Neither was De La Hoya. Neither was Maidana. None of these guys were "elites". Those 3 fighters were about as good/respected as Daniel Jacobs, Miguel Cotto, Callum Smith when Canelo fought them.

GGG, Lara, Jacobs, C. Smith, and Trout were being made out to be about as big as a boogeymen as fans were making Margarito out to be for Mayweather. Then Canelo fights all 5 of those guys who he was accused of ducking, and he gets no credit because he did not beat them 12 rounds to 0 or by TKO1.

Boxing fans of the United States are totally clueless on what they want in a fighter. Their requirements change like a chameleon.

[-Kev-]

He began his career beating up food vendors and farmers.
Not many people are born that tiny and able to gain weight over time (sarcasm).
Not many fighters had the luck of facing such horrible opponents for those titles (vacant or otherwise -Lucas and Margarito !!!! )
He used *'s whenever he felt an opponent was too dangerous
He NEVER gave away 40 lbs to an opponent (108 lb Pac beat 144 lb Cotto and 152 ln Margarito NEVER HAPPENED )

Big fckin deal.. Pac gained weight and fought some questionable opponents, usually at their worst.

I'm impressed he hasn't been called on this.

Again, if it's so easy, then it should have been done before him, multiple times, and in the next few decades we should see it become the norm. Actually, I think that you can do it too. Even you can do it bro.

[-Kev-]

Wtf are you on??

At only 20 freakin yrs old he beats Mosley-truly elite

Lara(only a sad hater thinks he lost that fight)truly elite

Cotto truly elite

ggg 2 clear win and truly elite

Jacobs truly elite

Callum Smith super 6 winner The ring #1 smw at the time Truly elite

Oh I get it they’re only truly elite before canelo beats them once he whoops them they are bums right?

Man gtfoh

Not only that, but people have amnesia now, but some of us did not forget: His critics said he would duck Trout, Lara, GGG, GGG rematch, Jacobs, and even Callum Smith. He fought them all. His critics also predicted he would weight-drain Sergey Kovalev and not fight him at 175lbs. He fought him at 175lbs, then they had to change what it is that they are mad about Canelo vs Kovalev, and it changed to "Kovalev is done, was a cherrypick".

Like I said, they do not even know what they want in a fighter. They just throw out different requirements on what makes a fighter great.

I remember when it was all about "Win or lose, close fight or KO, just fight the best".

You have Canelo, who has been fighting the very best fighters he could fight since like 20 years old, has been fighting the fighters that his critics said he would duck, has been winning, has been in competitive fights, close wins, has been tested, etc. And now that "Just fight the best, win or lose" changed to "Fight the best and beat them in all 12 rounds or KO them or else don't count".

[BodyBagz]

Again, if it's so easy, then it should have been done before him, multiple times, and in the next few decades we should see it become the norm. Actually, I think that you can do it too. Even you can do it bro.

Not many people are born that tiny and able to gain weight over time (sarcasm).

I weighed more than 108 when I was 10

But yes, If I were that tiny GROWN ASSED MAN, I would have been the 1st 8 div blahblahbalh

[hugh grant]

I know the word through the g****vine general consensus is nel o has surpassed floyd already, but nel o will officially have surpassed floyd for sure by the time he does something at 36 years old.

[BodyBagz]

I'm a big fan of both fighters (more May since he's been here 1st).
It's not really 10000 % fair to match or compare them at their best. The BEST May is PRE WW MAY.
The BEST Nelo is MW Nelo (right now, I think he's too high). May would never be at his best at MW. Would win some fights but would never be the best. Same for Nelo. He couldn't live at WW and below.

No one beats that may (AKA PBF).

NO ONE

Pac's only true claim to fame, if a fight fan removes all of the BS, is how he got away with fighting so many guys at their worst.

[QueensburyRules]

Ring champion at 154, 160, 168. Next stop should be 175. Beat the best there, unify all the belts and retire.

- -Near impossible with Uncle Al now the big dog in Vegas, the new DKing.

Canelo had to give Plant 5x more than he was worth to make that fight, but yeah, fighting Beter and then retiring win/lose/draw just the ticket for a magic carpet ride through the Gates of Valhalla.

[Toyman]

Manny only had 1 arm and still outboxed Floyd.

There is clear video evidence of this that is even slowed down to accurately point out every single punch and the result shows that Manny out landed Floyd somewhere around 100 - 70.

Floyd also used illegal iv for that fight.

That's why Floyd doesn't stand out