Comments Thread For: Benavidez: They Let Canelo Do Whatever He Wants; That's Why He Got That Short Suspension

[Marchegiano]

Is this true, Marchegiano?

I'd say it could a contributing factor at best but he's not wrong in that cheating happened.

Nothing takes the responsibility for the end of pagan rituals as much as christianity does. The ancient Olympics were not sport like ours are, they were worship and they were ended by Christian emperors. They were not perfect so basically any criticism that applies can be contributed to their end, but, let's be real, it was Christians' distain for pagan culture that ended pagan culture and the Olympics ain't special there.


The Olympics, in a nutshell, was really just propaganda, state-controlled functions from an age when state and church are one in the same. As such, most of the cheating you'll find is **** that the state orchestrated themselves. Like Nero thinking he's a chariot racer now...during his reign. He cheated so hard, I think it was something like he had ten horses to everyone else's four or some such. In a very real sense, 10hp cart vs 4hp cart .... no race at all. And some rather unfair asks of the fighters I'll get into in a sec.

The only boxing cheat I know of was called Eupolus and he bribed his opponents, got caught, and was forced to buy statues of Zeus as punishment. Four of them I think. He is the only on-purpose cheater I know of. Surely there was more but we have no record of them.

Other boxing "cheats" are not so much cheaters as men who cheated. Contrary to popular assumption, probably brought on by conflating gladiators with pygmachos, ancient boxers were holy men and killing one another was illegal. So Kleomedes, that's a name you'll see on my list of champions but in the actual ancient papyrus and tablets that olympia was won by a dude named Ikkos. Kleo killed Ikkos and so the dead man was crowned champion and the killer was considered that, a murderer. Same thing happened to dudes named Diogenes, not to be confused with the philosopher of the same name, and Heracles, obvsiously not the actual demi-god. Heracles being a double dose of don't kill because he's named after a god. Dio killed em, was considered a cheater and murderer.

So, by their terms, yeah, cheating happened quite a bit, but, it wasn't on purpose and it was kind of unavoidable over the 2k years of boxing they had.



If you take these 3 names, you're looking at 388BC for Eupolus, 496 BC for Kleomedes, 488 BC Diogenes. Boxing was officially cut in 393 AD. You know, as Rome christianized.

Reason given for the end of boxing is it is heresy. Disfigures the image of god because man is made in the image of god. Apollo is Satan in disguise tricking good men into heresy to doom their souls while calling them valorous.

So given the only instances I even know of are some 600 years prior, it happened right as rome christianized, they said it's because they are christians now, and most cheating would go unrecorded as cheating because it was done by the state, I think it's safe to say that is some **** historians say because they're lazy and didn't actually take any time with the material. Like how the western bar clearing scene is just for movies....except it was common for boxers and how they made their names from like 1720s until the 1880s. Historians say it all the time but check those fools. Do they even know who Yankee Sullivan is? Kinda the same isn't it. How does a man who doesn't even know who Eupolus is speak on cheating in ancient olympia? Same way a man who doesn't know who Yankee is speaking on barroom brawling. They just do....ignorantly spreading ignorance.


I'm sure homie picked that up from a guy rather a lot like Simon Whistler. Sounds good if you don't know any better kinda stuff.

[MrShakeAndBake]

There is no denying it, Canelo is pay day for them, evryone is chasing him.

[1Eriugenus]

'Like how the western bar clearing scene is just for movies....except it was common for boxers and how they made their names from like 1720s until the 1880s.'

It definitely wasn't how prizefighters in Britain made their name. So far as I'm aware there was very little true prizefighting in the USA. For the most part you folks threw ****** in to do the fighting & bet on them. Thats why the only American to fight for the true prizefighting title was a freed slave, Tom Molyneaux. There was also Tom Heenan but he came along long after prizefighting had lost popularity.

[-Kev-]

Benavidez is ranked #1 by the WBC, so technically he has already earned his shot and Canelo will have to see him eventually or else drop the WBC belt.

I do not care about WBC/IBF/WBO/WBA rankings. Never have never will. I have maintained that ABC rankings are sh/t. I do not care about them. Seeing other boxing fans use these rankings, is laughable. It’s a joke. They clearly rank who ever they want, when ever they want. That’s how Pacquiao and Margarito were able to skip the line of all 154lb fighters and fight for the WBC title. I guess Margarito “earned” that title shot since he was ranked at the top by WBC?

Benavidez has done nothing of note other than be Mexican-American. That’s it, that’s how he got the #1 spot. His last two fights have been sh/t. His next fight will be sh/t. His last fight vs a good opponent was almost 2 years ago now.

He was put on his ass vs Gavril, in a fight he got a gift decision in. He constantly punches himself out, breathes through his mouth by the 6th round. Lastly, he throws punches with his chin hanging all over the place. Benavidez will get destroyed by Canelo and fans calling for this fight will then say Benavidez was green, not ready, not elite, B level at best. Never gets old. Happened to Mayweather his whole career.

[Marchegiano]

'Like how the western bar clearing scene is just for movies....except it was common for boxers and how they made their names from like 1720s until the 1880s.'

It definitely wasn't how prizefighters in Britain made their name. So far as I'm aware there was very little true prizefighting in the USA. For the most part you folks threw ****** in to do the fighting & bet on them. Thats why the only American to fight for the true prizefighting title was a freed slave, Tom Molyneaux. There was also Tom Heenan but he came along long after prizefighting had lost popularity.

You want me to teach you boxing history from 1722-1880?

Trust, ask these fools, my ass most certainly will but first you're going to have to prove to me you're actually willing to read and tell me something about Yankee Sullivan that lets me know you've read all about his adventures running from the law on the east coast of america, fighting gangs in bars along the way, until he was killed by the VC in cali. Yanke worked for criminals, fought criminals, helped rig elections, was brought in and stood trial for murder, there's a whole lot of rich story there and if you're really interested in boxing history and how American boxing kicked off then you will read it.

If not, then you're just a well actually mother ****er who is going to see a wall of text and **** right off and if that is the case then I'd rather not write my zillionth overview of boxing history. I've already done this, several times, better than ten, that's why dude tagged me in to speak on it. So if you're not a serious history fan let's be honest about our juxtaposition now.




That said, I will give some level of real response just not super detailed until I know there's a point to all this typing.

James Figg most certainly did make his name by fighting no bodies in bars, you should just, you know, read a book or something like that with a little more depth than an article or overview book for bareknuckle boxing or whatever it is that has you thinking this man never fought barroom brawl.

It's funny to me you mention the Cribb Moly era. Not long before Cribb fought Molyneaux for the "world" title, back around the 1790s, the HW champion of England was called Daniel The *** Mendoza, read about his exploits and how he got famous. Not even the King of England was safe from Mendoza thrashing him let alone nobodies in a bar. If his moniker, The ***, and the date doesn't tip you off, yes, he is your first truly antagonistic champion.

Have you never heard of The Ward Gang? English boxing circa 1820s-1850s?

Do you not know how John L Sullivan got famous?
Have you never heard the quote "lick any son of a ***** in the building."?


I guess no one told you this, so I will, most of boxing's modern, or christian if you like, history was done illegally in ******** dens that were more often than not, bars, and ever since Figg's era it's been common practice for champions to fight the general public, be for show, to make a point, or just because they were in a bad mood, whatever, it's all over boxing history.






You don't know where the phrase "The Real McCoy" came from?


You're not a case in point right here?

[theface07]

He's not wrong, but comparing Uzcategui to Canelo is not very responsible. Canelo popped for traces of a banned substance, then provided hair follicles which showed no history prior to the failed test. Uzcategui got popped for a much more dangerous substance and his intent to cheat was obvious. He Should get the baby Miller treatment and get suspension 2 years.

Says the totally non-biased "chepboxingking".
GTFOH with that double standard having nonsense. Canelo is a cheat and will always be a cheat. His trainer is a thug. You know they get away with every trick in the book because of the money Canelo brings in.

[ShoulderRoll]

I do not care about WBC/IBF/WBO/WBA rankings. Never have never will. I have maintained that ABC rankings are sh/t. I do not care about them. Seeing other boxing fans use these rankings, is laughable. It’s a joke. They clearly rank who ever they want, when ever they want. That’s how Pacquiao and Margarito were able to skip the line of all 154lb fighters and fight for the WBC title. I guess Margarito “earned” that title shot since he was ranked at the top by WBC?

Benavidez has done nothing of note other than be Mexican-American. That’s it, that’s how he got the #1 spot. His last two fights have been sh/t. His next fight will be sh/t. His last fight vs a good opponent was almost 2 years ago now.

He was put on his ass vs Gavril, in a fight he got a gift decision in. He constantly punches himself out, breathes through his mouth by the 6th round. Lastly, he throws punches with his chin hanging all over the place. Benavidez will get destroyed by Canelo and fans calling for this fight will then say Benavidez was green, not ready, not elite, B level at best. Never gets old. Happened to Mayweather his whole career.

Who at 168 lbs is a better opponent for Canelo than Benavidez?

If you don't like the WBC rankings then use your own to answer the question.

[1Eriugenus]

Marchegiano

Firstly, yes I have heard of Figg & of Daniel Mendoza whose ring name was 'The terrible ***'.

The way things worked in c18th, & you can read Pierce Egan for yourself if you doubt me, is that a guy made a name in his area for being good at fighting. Men always have fought, always will fight. If he kept winning it might be suggested that he fight the best guy from an adjoining area at a pre-arranged time & place &, to make it interesting, his friends might be prepared to wager with the other guy's friends on who won. Typically, the loser went back to being a blacksmith or ostler or navvy & the winner's friends looked for new potential match-ups. If you kept being successful you might get to fight for the British title.

There were 3 titles, Light, Middle & Heavy. All the prestige rested at Heavy so small men like Mendoza or, much later, Tom Sayers, would fight much bigger men to seek much greater prize money. The fights were phenomenally bloody & brutal, being always fights to the finish. They could go over 2 hours. For this reason most fighters had no more than 20 recorded fights in a career, many had fewer than 10. Obviously, the many fights they must've had before they came to the attention of the likes of Pierce Egan aren't recorded.

The words 'British Title' are a bit of a misnomer. There was no authority over the sport & certainly no rankings. The chaps who made the bets, 'The Fancy' selected a fellow they thought would be a suitable challenger & put him in against the fellow they had anointed 'champion'. This was why once Molyneaux had arrived in London & beat a few men there was no argument against his fighting for the 'British Title' even though he was a Black American who'd only been in Britain for about a year. Sadly, poor Tom got screwed. On consideration the Fancy decided that a brother holding their most prestigious title was, err, not to their liking.

No 'bar clearing'. was necessary.

By the time The Ward Gang came along the best days of prizefighting had passed. Mendoza, Jackson, Gully, Belcher, Cribb, Richmond & Molyneaux were all long cold.

And yes, I know one explanation of the term 'the real McCoy' is derived from a boxer called McCoy, but, in truth, that explanation is not widely accepted.

[Thuglife Nelo]

Says the totally non-biased "chepboxingking".
GTFOH with that double standard having nonsense. Canelo is a cheat and will always be a cheat. His trainer is a thug. You know they get away with every trick in the book because of the money Canelo brings in.

WADA amended Clenbuterol in 2019. Keep feeling salty! Industry has acknowledged it, and Clenbuterol hasn’t been laughed at since.

[Marchegiano]

Marchegiano

Firstly, yes I have heard of Figg & of Daniel Mendoza whose ring name was 'The terrible ***'.

The way things worked in c18th, & you can read Pierce Egan for yourself if you doubt me, is that a guy made a name in his area for being good at fighting. Men always have fought, always will fight. If he kept winning it might be suggested that he fight the best guy from an adjoining area at a pre-arranged time & place &, to make it interesting, his friends might be prepared to wager with the other guy's friends on who won. Typically, the loser went back to being a blacksmith or ostler or navvy & the winner's friends looked for new potential match-ups. If you kept being successful you might get to fight for the British title.

There were 3 titles, Light, Middle & Heavy. All the prestige rested at Heavy so small men like Mendoza or, much later, Tom Sayers, would fight much bigger men to seek much greater prize money. The fights were phenomenally bloody & brutal, being always fights to the finish. They could go over 2 hours. For this reason most fighters had no more than 20 recorded fights in a career, many had fewer than 10. Obviously, the many fights they must've had before they came to the attention of the likes of Pierce Egan aren't recorded.

The words 'British Title' are a bit of a misnomer. There was no authority over the sport & certainly no rankings. The chaps who made the bets, 'The Fancy' selected a fellow they thought would be a suitable challenger & put him in against the fellow they had anointed 'champion'. This was why once Molyneaux had arrived in London & beat a few men there was no argument against his fighting for the 'British Title' even though he was a Black American who'd only been in Britain for about a year. Sadly, poor Tom got screwed. On consideration the Fancy decided that a brother holding their most prestigious title was, err, not to their liking.

No 'bar clearing'. was necessary.

By the time The Ward Gang came along the best days of prizefighting had passed. Mendoza, Jackson, Gully, Belcher, Cribb, Richmond & Molyneaux were all long cold.

And yes, I know one explanation of the term 'the real McCoy' is derived from a boxer called McCoy, but, in truth, that explanation is not widely accepted.

How is it I called out your understanding of the Figg years as coming from either articles or an overview book, then, you respond with "check out this overview book if you don't believe me" nonsense?

Egan? Dude, you shouldn't be pretending to be the authority here. You're doing a lot of misunderstanding the very little information you have on any given character in Egan's book....and...hate to break this to you....Boxiana is not some hidden, unpopular, lost tome of secrete knowledge...it's the super popular basis for basically everything. Don't tell me to crack Pugilistica or Fistania either, I have, I promise it's you who need to get a little more depth. I'm not just being a jerk, and, I think I could be a whole ****load more jerky given it's pretty clear at this point you know your ass and twice now I've called it while your response to me calling you on your level of knowledge and research is to verify I'm not just close but rather dead on.

You're not just wrong about what you're contesting either, the other stuff isn't correct.....because you've read an overview book.

That said, it's clear you want to go teach someone something, it's just not me. You have nothing to teach me and you're coming at me arrogantly with **** to teach instead of learn.

Read another book. Then get off the overview bull****.

If you want to know more about Figg it's not Egan who was alive...is it? Nope. Someone else wrote about Figg and Egan learned from that author and took bits he wanted for his own work. Who was that author? What is that book? Oh you don't know huh? Maybe stop acting like you have something to teach me and start acting like you have plenty to learn and then I'll quit pointing out how ****** this juxtaposition is.