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  • JAB5239
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    #61
    Heres a little info on Conn for those who aren't very familiar with him.

    Billy Conn was born on October 8, 1917 in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Conn never fought as an amateur. He was managed by Johnny Ray who fought as a lightweight and trained with hall of famer Harry Greb. Conn made his pro debut at age 16 when he lost a decision to 21 year old **** Woodward. Most of Conn's early fights were against older, more experienced opponents. Conn began his career at welterweight and fought up to heavyweight. By the age of 21 Conn had defeated 9 present or former world champions. Almost one third of his fights were against title holders. Although often outweighed, Conn never lost to a heavyweight with the exception of Joe Louis.

    Conn gained national attention with his upset victories over middleweight champion Fred Apostoli. At the time Apostoli was regarded as the best pound for pound fighter in the world. Conn beat him in his New York debut at Madison Square Garden with a 10 round decision and won again in 15 rounds just five weeks later. They were two of the most thrilling fights in middleweight history. Conn considered his fights with Apostoli the toughest of his career. Conn won the world light heavyweight title from Melio Bettina on July 13, 1939. He later gave up the title to campaign as a heavyweight.

    Conn will forever be remembered for his near-upset of heavyweight champion Joe Louis on June 18, 1941 at the Polo Grounds in New York. Conn weighed in at 169 1/2 lbs and was outweighed by 30 pounds. Louis had beaten every top heavyweight and was in the prime of his career. Conn out-boxed and out-slugged Louis for 12 rounds and almost sent Louis to the floor at the end of the 12th. Overconfident and ahead on points going into the 13th round, Conn told his manager that he was going to knockout Louis. Ray told him that he was winning the fight and to keep boxing but Conn was determined to win by knockout. Conn came out slugging and was winning the first half of the round, but he was fighting carelessly. The bigger and stronger Louis eventually hurt Conn and after a number of unanswered blows he knocked out Conn with two seconds left in the round. Joe Louis said this fight was the toughest of his career and that Conn was the best light heavyweight he ever saw. This fight is often referred to as the greatest fight of all time.

    Conn beat Hall of Famer Tony Zale in 1942 and had a rematch scheduled with Joe Louis the same year. However the rematch was canceled when Billy broke his hand in a much publicized fight with his father in law, major league ballplayer "Greenfield" Jimmy Smith. The two later apologized but Billy was sent on a moral tour with Bob Hope and others celebrities during World War II. When the war ended there was a rematch in 1946, but this time it was an older, slower Conn who hadn't had a professional fight in four years. Louis knocked out Conn in the eight round and Conn announced his retirement after the fight. Conn made a brief two fight comeback in 1948 winning both bouts, but then decided to retire for good.

    Billy Conn possessed great hand and foot speed, had an excellent defense, boxed beautifully, and had an iron chin. He was a slow starter who never tired, fought best in the later rounds, and had a tendency to slug it out when hurt. He was generally regarded as the worlds most handsome fighter and starred in a movie for Republic Pictures called "The Pittsburgh Kid" in 1941. But he turned down a career in Hollywood, including a role in "On the Waterfront" to live in Pittsburgh with his wife Mary Louise.

    At the age of 72 Billy Conn once again made national headlines by interrupting a convenient store robber in Pittsburgh. Billy decked the gunman who was later arrested. Billy Conn died in 1993 at the age of 75.

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    • Steak
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      #62
      Originally posted by Shadows208
      Quick question.

      How come Spinks never fought Saad Muhammad? I know their title reigns only overlapped for a short time, but is there a specific reason? I've tried to look for a legit reason, but only found a youtube video in which Saad Muhammad says he believes Spinks ducked him.

      It just seems kinda strange (to me), that they didn't fight, when both fought Lopez, Qawi, Johnson, and Eddie M. Muhammad.
      ha, dont ask me, Im no boxing historian.

      I dont know why they never fought while they were both champions, but in the end it doesnt matter too much. Qawi beat up Matt pretty bad between those two fights, pretty much ending his career. Matt had already been in a ton of wars beforehand, and after Qawi they caught up to him quick.

      although Matt made a lot of title defences I think he only was champ for like 2-3 years. he just was super active and faced almost everyone available.

      I went ahead and cheated a little by looking at the dates, and Matt lost his title to Qawi less than half a month after Spinks won his title against Marvin. so Im just going to guess that there simply wasnt enough time for the fight to be made.

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      • ThunderWolf
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        #63
        Originally posted by JAB5239
        Who ranks higher p4p, Manny Pacquiao or Billy Conn? Lets hear some answers!
        Was Billy Conn world champion in 6, possibly 7 weight divisions and lineal champ in 4 weight divisions? This is moot and academic, do you even know what P4P mean?
        Last edited by ThunderWolf; 09-08-2009, 10:47 PM.

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        • Shadows
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          #64
          Originally posted by blackirish137
          ha, dont ask me, Im no boxing historian.

          I dont know why they never fought while they were both champions, but in the end it doesnt matter too much. Qawi beat up Matt pretty bad between those two fights, pretty much ending his career. Matt had already been in a ton of wars beforehand, and after Qawi they caught up to him quick.

          although Matt made a lot of title defences I think he only was champ for like 2-3 years. he just was super active and faced almost everyone available.

          I went ahead and cheated a little by looking at the dates, and Matt lost his title to Qawi less than half a month after Spinks won his title against Marvin. so Im just going to guess that there simply wasnt enough time for the fight to be made.
          Sorry. Didn't mean to put you on the spot, lol

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            #65
            Originally posted by ThunderWolf
            Was Billy Conn world champion in 6, possibly 7 weight divisions and lineal champ in 4 weight divisions? Moot and academic, do you even know what P4P mean?

            The point you made is academic actually.

            Conn went from 160 to fighting Joe Louis at heavy and damn near winning.


            He didn't have a bunch of divisions to go through separated by 5 and 4 pounds.

            It's really the equivalent of Hops almost losing to Pac to put it in perspective.

            But I like Manny a lot, and his history, hasn't been written yet.

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            • Shadows
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              #66
              Originally posted by ThunderWolf
              Was Billy Conn world champion in 6, possibly 7 weight divisions and lineal champ in 4 weight divisions? Moot and academic, do you even know what P4P mean?
              P4P is not exclusively moving up in weight. P4P was originally created to judge how fighters would rank if they were all in one division. Not who can move up the most classes.

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              • JAB5239
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                #67
                Originally posted by ThunderWolf
                Was Billy Conn world champion in 6, possibly 7 weight divisions and lineal champ in 4 weight divisions? This is moot and academic, do you even know what P4P mean?
                Divisions and titles have nothing to do with who fought better fighters. How many pro fighters are there today compared to then? How many titles are there today compared to then? How man divisions are there today compared to then? You see, its not that easy to come to a conclusion based on facts when you brake everything down.

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                • Dan...
                  Fredette About It
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                  #68
                  Originally posted by JAB5239


                  So far 3 people have voted (Talisayen, Dan..., and Archaic) but none have bothered to give any reasons why they think Pac ranks higher. Come on guys, let me hear your arguments.
                  Only seen the one Conn fight against Louis. I accept that he gave Joe all he could handle but I wasn't overly impressed with what I saw to be honest. I consider Pacquiao to be an exceptionally special fighter with a fantastic resume and great skills and accomplishments.

                  Good enough?

                  Also, I often just browse in here and vote in the polls nowadays without posting as I am just pretty much over the ridiculous ******ity of these boards, so I apologise for not initially responding with a post.

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                  • Steak
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                    #69
                    Originally posted by Shadows208
                    Sorry. Didn't mean to put you on the spot, lol
                    hey, its all good boxing talk, cant say no to that.
                    thats why Im on these goofy forums all the time, haha.

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                    • RightCross94
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                      #70
                      Originally posted by JAB5239
                      Again this is arguable but I don't really have a problem with it if you can discuss the facts.
                      Thanks. And it was a good point you were making, and you did expose some ignorance, with people saying "how can i take Conn seriously when he lost to so and so" The circumstances mean everything in boxing, you can have a guy losing to journeyman, but then you can look at the circumstances and see he was really still a good fighter.

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