Why do some fans want to see young boxers step up so quick?

[-Kev-]

Ali was 22 when he fought liston. Tyson was 20 when he won his first title. foreman was 24 when he fought fraizer. oh and he went to the olympics in under 2 years from his first amateur fight, didnt wait until the next cycle 4 years later.


why is it today we accept fighters padding their record until they are damn near 40 years old. then you get guys like charlo who is 31, andrande who is 33 who never fought nobody yet, what they *** are they doing, they been fighting 10 years and still never stepped up.

Padding records have been around for a century now. In fact in modern boxing, boxers don’t fight as many tomato cans as fighters who won 100 fights. They do not have that luxury.

Boxing fans seem to always insult the ATG fighters unintentionally. By suggesting all fighters can do that.

Again, let me try to break this down so that even 5 years olds can understand:

Tyson, Ali, Foreman won belts at a young age and showed they were great at a young age?

Okay so everyone can do this I assume? If so, why are they praised? If anyone can do what they did, then why are those 3 fighters in the HOF?

Does that really make sense to you. You and a group of others keep mentioning ATG’s resume’s, without realizing what you are suggesting.

If Foreman, Tyson, and Ali can do it then so can you and I?

Some boxers develop faster than others. That is great for them. They end up becoming ATG’s. But that is not a situation that one size fits all.

Using HOFers and ATG’s as a measuring stick is either setting the bar unreasonably high, or, you subconsciously don’t think too highly of ATG/HOF careers because you expect everyone to do what they did. Which is more amusing than anything. Same guys you think you are defending, you are downplaying their success by thinking any good to decent young boxer to the same.

[REDEEMER]

Padding records have been around for a century now. In fact in modern boxing, boxers don’t fight as many tomato cans as fighters who won 100 fights. They do not have that luxury.

Boxing fans seem to always insult the ATG fighters unintentionally. By suggesting all fighters can do that.

Again, let me try to break this down so that even 5 years olds can understand:

Tyson, Ali, Foreman won belts at a young age and showed they were great at a young age?

Okay so everyone can do this I assume? If so, why are they praised? If anyone can do what they did, then why are those 3 fighters in the HOF?

Does that really make sense to you. You and a group of others keep mentioning ATG’s resume’s, without realizing what you are suggesting.

If Foreman, Tyson, and Ali can do it then so can you and I?

Some boxers develop faster than others. That is great for them. They end up becoming ATG’s. But that is not a situation that one size fits all.

Using HOFers and ATG’s as a measuring stick is either setting the bar unreasonably high, or, you subconsciously don’t think too highly of ATG/HOF careers because you expect everyone to do what they did. Which is more amusing than anything. Same guys you think you are defending, you are downplaying their success by thinking any good to decent young boxer to the same.

Heavyweight boxers mature at a slower rate now ,wins defined by age doesn’t really make sense these days . AJ fighting Wlad in his 19th fight is a task very few could do and win , age would be irrelevant but AJ clearly was still green ,he’s not the fighter he is now so it’s very impressive more with that fact .

[maguirre]

Hilarious thread.

The idea that boxing promoters, managers, networks, trainers, handlers are pressured by fans to do certain fights is comedic. It's silly. It took 5 years to make the Pac/May fight. Crawford/Spence is still far from happening. Wilder/Joshua, and many more. Fans can demand certain fights till they're blue in the face and such fights still won''t happen.

You have to show examples where fights are made because fans pushed for them.

[elfag]

Padding records have been around for a century now. In fact in modern boxing, boxers don’t fight as many tomato cans as fighters who won 100 fights. They do not have that luxury.

Boxing fans seem to always insult the ATG fighters unintentionally. By suggesting all fighters can do that.

Again, let me try to break this down so that even 5 years olds can understand:

Tyson, Ali, Foreman won belts at a young age and showed they were great at a young age?

Okay so everyone can do this I assume? If so, why are they praised? If anyone can do what they did, then why are those 3 fighters in the HOF?

Does that really make sense to you. You and a group of others keep mentioning ATG’s resume’s, without realizing what you are suggesting.

If Foreman, Tyson, and Ali can do it then so can you and I?

Some boxers develop faster than others. That is great for them. They end up becoming ATG’s. But that is not a situation that one size fits all.

Using HOFers and ATG’s as a measuring stick is either setting the bar unreasonably high, or, you subconsciously don’t think too highly of ATG/HOF careers because you expect everyone to do what they did. Which is more amusing than anything. Same guys you think you are defending, you are downplaying their success by thinking any good to decent young boxer to the same.

But we ARE talking about fighters who are supposedly the best of their division. We arent talking about C level fighters, we are talking about guys in the top 10. This is how we end up with the andrande's and charlos who are hyped but never fought anybody at 30+ years old. hell wilder was over 30 befire he fought someone good.

The networks, promoters ect HYPE these guys and market them as being great but protect their record. Its not like they tried and failed, they never tried at all. The promotors never gave them a chance to be an ATG because they never tried.

[elfag]

Hilarious thread.

The idea that boxing promoters, managers, networks, trainers, handlers are pressured by fans to do certain fights is comedic. It's silly. It took 5 years to make the Pac/May fight. Crawford/Spence is still far from happening. Wilder/Joshua, and many more. Fans can demand certain fights till they're blue in the face and such fights still won''t happen.

You have to show examples where fights are made because fans pushed for them.

True, we are ONLY getting crawford-porter because the ABC finally forced them to make the fight and crawford/arum almost threw the belt in the trashcan and moved to 154.


Cross network cross promoter super fights like Pac/May and Tyson/Lewis, even with a mountain of money to be made the networks and promoters still nearly refuse to make them. It took years of negotiations for both fights.

[elfag]

Forgot where I found it, but I think I read somewhere that a LOT of promoters/managers saw what happened to Fernando Vargas and got scared to never do such a thing again

Yeah vargas was an "HBO fighter"

I dont know how the background financials worked and chit but HBO back then had a few favorites and they had them promoted up on their website. You could go to HBO boxing website and read bios and chit but only on about a dozen or so fighters they were semi promoting or whatever.

The division was pretty deep back then and they squeaked him by Winky in a very close fight, then got destroyed by tito and DLH. They realized they could have really milked him a long for a lot more years, get him some wins over "name" fighters who had more wear on them like quartey, before cashing out on the riskier fights. Financially that would have been a better strategy for them and that is exactly what they do these days.

Thing that ****** for Winky was after that vargas fight on HBO, he was sent back packing fighting on EPSN for years until Mosley took a risk and offered him a fight. Mosley could have just ignored him and Winky would have never had his second wind late in his career all because Winky wasnt seen as marketable or exciting.

[REDEEMER]

Hilarious thread.

The idea that boxing promoters, managers, networks, trainers, handlers are pressured by fans to do certain fights is comedic. It's silly. It took 5 years to make the Pac/May fight. Crawford/Spence is still far from happening. Wilder/Joshua, and many more. Fans can demand certain fights till they're blue in the face and such fights still won''t happen.

You have to show examples where fights are made because fans pushed for them.

That’s not his argument,his argument is the fans wanting the fighters in general to be rushed in the early stages of the careers . The Wilder fight never happened generally because of the Wilder crazy fan base where they reinforced Wilders behavior and he had enough crazies in the hard core fan base that it also effected the casual fan base where they questioned AJ instead of the guy declining offers . So the public pressure was not actually there it was more finger pointing which was the team Wilder agenda there .

Fights that don’t happen have mostly been because of the PBC , you listed two fighters from there which isn’t a coincidence. I dont think there’s really many mega fights that would put attention to the fans to demand a fight ,there was a few but not many . As long as you have one side of crazy fans that don’t go after their fighter they like to take a certain fight ,it only gives that side more ammunition not to to take that fight .

[REDEEMER]

True, we are ONLY getting crawford-porter because the ABC finally forced them to make the fight and crawford/arum almost threw the belt in the trashcan and moved to 154.


Cross network cross promoter super fights like Pac/May and Tyson/Lewis, even with a mountain of money to be made the networks and promoters still nearly refuse to make them. It took years of negotiations for both fights.

Fans wanted to see Tyson vs Holyfield much more ,it was in demand and Tyson was rushed into that fight with still a lot of ring rust . Lewis vs Tyson did take a lot longer unless you count the early 90”s but it wasn’t really that important,Tyson had taking 2 losses to Holyfield already . Holyfield was also in 2 fights with Lewis so there is a bit exaggeration on how long Lewis and Tyson took , Holyfield was always going to fight Tyson first it’s what the fans were waiting for .

[paulf]

You know, it annoys me too but also I understand.

Many fans are so embittered by all the garbage going on in boxing, so many events like what took place last weekend, so many showcases, so many fighters having made ten defenses of their fake title against D-list and/or compromised opponents, that the only time many fans can get a real high from watching the sport is when the matchmakers screw up and their blue-chip prospect gets KTFO in his home town in front of his friends and family.

[maguirre]

That’s not his argument,his argument is the fans wanting the fighters in general to be rushed in the early stages of the careers .

Fans can say anything they want. But that doesn't mean fights get made because of it. They don't.

There are layers and layers of obstacles before any fight even gets to the first step. The fighter's old man may not even approve of the fight, for example. Even the fighter's own trainer get to have a say whether to say yes or no to the fight. Not to mention the manager, advisor, networks' execs, you name it. It's naive to assume these people behind all these fights are influenced by what fans say. They don't give a hoot.