People say Tank is not a 3 division champ due to the WBA"regular" title

[Citizen Koba]

The reason G's is somewhat different is because the WBA is supposed to upgrade you to Super after 5 defenses.

If Tank wants to defend his regular belt 5 times, then I'll call him a champ.

Fun fact: Somewhere in between instigating the '5 defenses' rule in 2009/10 under which Sturm was elevated and Golovkin reaching his 5th defense (against Proksa or possibly Rosado depending how you measure it) the WBA actually must have changed their rules, cos their documentation states (and it's so ridiculous I couldn't at first fathom what was meant by the rule) that Middleweights - and only Middleweights - are required to make 10 defenses before elevation.

https://www.wbaboxing.com/wp-content...tion-Rules.pdf

APPENDIX C

SUPER BELTS

Heavy: Joe Louis (5 defenses), Muhammad Ali (10 defenses);
Cruiser: Evander Holyfield (5 defenses);
Light Heavy: Archie Moore (5 defenses), Virgil Hill (10 Defenses);
Super Middle: Sugar Ray Leonard (5 defenses);
Middle:Carlos Monzon (10 defenses);
Super Welterweight:Thomas Hearns (5 defenses);
Welter: Sugar Ray Robinson (5 defenses);
Super Light: Antonio Cervantes "Kid Pambele" (5 defenses);
Light: Roberto Duran (5 defenses);
Super Feather: Gabriel "Flash" Elorde (5 defenses);
Feather: Sandy Sadler (5 defenses), Eusebio Pedroza (10 defenses);
Bantam:Eder Jofre(5 defenses);
Super Bantam: Wilfredo Gomez (5 defenses);
Super Fly: Khaosay Galaxy (5 defenses);
Fly: PascualPerez (5 defenses);
Light Fly: Yoko Gushiken (5 defenses);
Minimum: Leo Gamez (5 defenses)

The meaning of this list may not be immediately clear since they've removed some of the clarification from their rules in between 2015 and 2020 (in fact they seem to have entirely abandoned the '5 defense' rule now since it's completely disappeared from their latest rules iteration, although they left in this appendix) but this quote from the 2015 rules tells you a little more.

https://www.wbaboxing.com/wp-content...ia-6-11-15.pdf

C.CHAMPIONSHIPS.

1.Belts. The Association shall adopt a World Championship Belt as a distinctive symbol for the Champion in each recognized weight category. These belts shall be awarded to the champion recognized by the Association.

2.Super Belts. Similarly the Association will grant Super Belts to those champions that make 5 or 10 (if it was the case) successful defenses of his title. These Super Belts will be named after those champions that have been able to defend their title 5 or 10 times. See Appendix C for a listing of boxers who are qualified for a Super Belt.

So actually the way it works (or rather worked) is say a Light Heavyweight made 5 defenses of the WBA world title he'd be given the 'Archie Moore' Super belt and if he made it all the way to 10 defenses he'd get the 'Virgil Hill' Super belt, similarly at Featherweight. However, for reasons best known to themselves at every weight except Middleweight you get a 'Super' title belt after 5 defenses of your title. At Middleweight however you were required to make 10 defenses before you were granted the 'Carlos Monzon' Super belt... yet Sturm was elevated after 7 so clearly the 10 defenses rule was an addition after Sturm was elevated in 2010 but before GGG was due to be elevated in 2012/3

Not quite sure how much more blatant you can get TBH...

EDIT: In fact the rules from Oct 2012 contain the same list, as was to be expected...

https://www.wbaboxing.com/wp-content...a_10-30-12.pdf

[_Rexy_]

Fun fact: Somewhere in between instigating the '5 defenses' rule in 2009/10 under which Sturm was elevated and Golovkin reaching his 5th defense (against Proksa or possibly Rosado depending how you measure it) the WBA actually must have changed their rules, cos their documentation states (and it's so ridiculous I couldn't at first fathom what was meant by the rule) that Middleweights - and only Middleweights - are required to make 10 defenses before elevation.

https://www.wbaboxing.com/wp-content...tion-Rules.pdf



The meaning of this list may not be immediately clear since they've removed some of the clarification from their rules in between 2015 and 2020 (in fact they seem to have entirely abandoned the '5 defense' rule now since it's completely disappeared from their latest rules iteration, although they left in this appendix) but this quote from the 2015 rules tells you a little more.

https://www.wbaboxing.com/wp-content...ia-6-11-15.pdf






So actually the way it works (or rather worked) is say a Light Heavyweight made 5 defenses of the WBA world title he'd be given the 'Archie Moore' Super belt and if he made it all the way to 10 defenses he'd get the 'Virgil Hill' Super belt, similarly at Featherweight. However, for reasons best known to themselves at every weight except Middleweight you get a 'Super' title belt after 5 defenses of your title. At Middleweight however you were required to make 10 defenses before you were granted the 'Carlos Monzon' Super belt... yet Sturm was elevated after 7 so clearly the 10 defenses rule was an addition after Sturm was elevated in 2010 but before GGG was due to be elevated in 2012/3

Not quite sure how much more blatant you can get TBH...

Who knows? I know they purposely didn't put a "super" belt in a few of the weight classes so there would still be "glory" attached to the regular belt. LHW was one of them, but I see Bivol eventually got upgraded to super anyways. WBA Needs those sanctioning fees.

[asgarth]

Fun fact: Somewhere in between instigating the '5 defenses' rule in 2009/10 under which Sturm was elevated and Golovkin reaching his 5th defense (against Proksa or possibly Rosado depending how you measure it) the WBA actually must have changed their rules, cos their documentation states (and it's so ridiculous I couldn't at first fathom what was meant by the rule) that Middleweights - and only Middleweights - are required to make 10 defenses before elevation.

https://www.wbaboxing.com/wp-content...tion-Rules.pdf



The meaning of this list may not be immediately clear since they've removed some of the clarification from their rules in between 2015 and 2020 (in fact they seem to have entirely abandoned the '5 defense' rule now since it's completely disappeared from their latest rules iteration, although they left in this appendix) but this quote from the 2015 rules tells you a little more.

https://www.wbaboxing.com/wp-content...ia-6-11-15.pdf






So actually the way it works (or rather worked) is say a Light Heavyweight made 5 defenses of the WBA world title he'd be given the 'Archie Moore' Super belt and if he made it all the way to 10 defenses he'd get the 'Virgil Hill' Super belt, similarly at Featherweight. However, for reasons best known to themselves at every weight except Middleweight you get a 'Super' title belt after 5 defenses of your title. At Middleweight however you were required to make 10 defenses before you were granted the 'Carlos Monzon' Super belt... yet Sturm was elevated after 7 so clearly the 10 defenses rule was an addition after Sturm was elevated in 2010 but before GGG was due to be elevated in 2012/3

Not quite sure how much more blatant you can get TBH...

Just out of curiosity. Do you know if they actually have rules regarding vacant super belts that they are handing out lately?

I know santa Cruz got one rewarded for beating miguel flores lol.

But they somehow didnt allow machado to win corrales super belt because.... corrales didnt make weight.

instead they then randomly sanctioned davis vs inactive and coming off a loss Cuellar for the super belt. Boxrec somehow doesnt have that title fight marked down as a vacant title fight. Who knows why.

[True-Boxing-Fan]

All I am saying is be consistent and not biased

Well Larry you need to be the consistent and non bias too. Fact is you used to shht on GGG hard and bash him at every turn. Now let me see you do the same with Tank, because there is a lot of similarities.

Now let me see you crush and bash Tank just as hard.

[IronDanHamza]

Boxing is at a point where fighters who are “elavated” to world Champions are argued to be the legit champion like Devin Haney.

Boxing’s legitimacy is done in regards to world champions. No one cares at this point if there’s 10+ belts per division.

[Mammoth]

If only it was that straightforward.

Problem you got there in simply derecognising the WBA 'World' is that the Super has been around since 2000 or so in various iterations and there have been numerous highly regarded Champions including some solid names, Hopkins (at 175), Hatton, Kessler, Maidana, Zab and Collazo to name just a few who held the 'World' title rather than the 'super' as the sole incumbent WBA Champion and you'd be effectively saying they weren't real champions even though they were at the time universally recognised as the WBA champ.... which would also deligitimise the guys who won their 'titles' from em and so on.

So you gotta kinda figure out a ruling that squares with the record books going back 20 odd years.

Fkn WBA screwed everyone with that piece of Bullsheet. Thing is it wasn't necessary at all for the purpose they claimed (reducing the mandatory burden on unified Champs)... they could have just kept one title and simply used 'super' as a designator for a unified champion if they really felt it was necessary. Problems started when they split it down into two seperate titles (well actually 3 or 4 since they variously described the same title as 'super' 'Unified' or 'Undisputed') and were then multiplied when they instigated the '5 defenses' rule in 2010, abandoning all pretense that they were doing it for the reason they had claimed in the first place..

I'm keeping it simple, Koba....

[kafkod]

yet some of those same people claim GGG had over 20 title defenses..so which is it??? is the belt a legit title or not?

That depends which WBA title, in which division, you are talking about.

All I am saying is be consistent and not biased

We should obviously try to avoid being biased, but the WBA don't apply their own rules consistently, and they change the rules arbitrarily whenever they see fit, so what criteria are we supposed to use to answer your question consistently?

[kafkod]

bro look at the lineage of the wba "regular" its not the real belt. it dont count


GGG's 20 title defenses are different, he is just using his white privilege. What good is white privilege if youre not allow to use it for anything?

If you want to look at it in those terms, it was Felix Sturm's white German privilege which protected him from the mixed race Kazakh Golovkin.

[Mammoth]

That depends which WBA title, in which division, you are talking about.



We should obviously try to avoid being biased, but the WBA don't apply their own rules consistently, and they change the rules arbitrarily whenever they see fit, so what criteria are we supposed to use to answer your question consistently?

Why spend time trying to keep track of the WBA's nonsense? They have a Super Title and Golovkin and Tank didn't have it in these instances.

[kafkod]

Everything involving belts is pretty much BS because there are so many of them. People have to evaluate things as they see them

Exactly, that's the only way for fans to avoid being herded like sheep by promoters and sanctioning bodies.