ATG Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather Jr

[Ray*]

I don't even want to start arguing in this thread because I have stuff to do today. I consider them about equal, having either guy slightly ahead is fine with me but they are at roughly the same spot. Once Pacquiao beats Cotto, which I am thinking he will do he would be ahead by a slight margin but who ends up greater really depens on what both do from this point forward.

Nothing pacman has done to really make him that special from what Mayweather has done so far apart from the fact that pacman is doing is thing now and thats what people remember, If people follow boxing closely then they would know and realise that Mayweather has done this in the past before the Judah fight.

But i do have Pacman slightly ahead because he came from nowhere in a short period of time to achieve what he has achieve while Mayweather has been at the top since 1998.

[FloydsEra]

The answer is: Pacman. And this is coming from a Floyd nuthugger

[Ray*]

Don't worry about Pac vs SRR & Pep, they're all dead. What Pac can do is beat PBF, Cotto & finally KO JMM to make you happy.

Am not bothered Pac/SRR you were the one bothered or saying he would beat them, My point is/was he struggled against the only boxer who fights and think in the ring in JMM and if he cant beat JMM easily like you claim then how is he going to beat people like SRR hearns duran???? Some of you pacman fans need to calm down a bit...

And yes i have him beating Cotto because he would be too fast for him..

[The Gambler1981]

Nothing pacman has done to really make him that special from what Mayweather has done so far apart from the fact that pacman is doing is thing now and thats what people remember, If people follow boxing closely then they would know and realise that Mayweather has done this in the past before the Judah fight.

But i do have Pacman slightly ahead because he came from nowhere in a short period of time to achieve what he has achieve while Mayweather has been at the top since 1998.

I have Floyd ahead because I think he is the superior fighter, having watched pretty much all of their important fights. There is not much between them though and either way is acceptable to me at this point, once Manny beats Cotto (which is the way I am thinking that fight is going to go) then I would have Manny ahead.

Either way at this point they are close.

[Pacdbest]

Am not bothered Pac/SRR you were the one bothered or saying he would beat them, My point is/was he struggled against the only boxer who fights and think in the ring in JMM and if he cant beat JMM easily like you claim then how is he going to beat people like SRR hearns duran???? Some of you pacman fans need to calm down a bit...

And yes i have him beating Cotto because he would be too fast for him..

Any of those ATGs struggled with some fighters of their generation. Even Floyd struggled with a non ATG fighter in Castillo. But JMM is an ATG too, so it's no shame for Pac not to annihilate JMM.

[S.G.]

The thing that places Pacquaio's resume above Mayweather's currently is his tanglings with the three Mexican greats; Morales, Barrera and Marquez.

Their name value is immense, even considering the circumstances that do reduce the Morales and Marquez scalps to a degree (Morales beating Pacquiao handily when most closely resembling his prime self and Marquez arguably beating Pacquiao on both occasions, particularly the second, and the first being a draw not a win anyway)

Mayweather's most credible wins are probably Castillo x2 and Corrales. Two great fighters also, don't get me wrong, but they don't have that marquee value. Also we can't forget that the first Castillo win is marred by similar controversy to the second Pacquiao - Marquez fight.

On the subject of Pacquiao's stock rocketing after the De La Hoya and Hatton wins; I think this is more a case of cumulation than singular career defining moments (in the pugilistic sense as opposed to a monetary or casual recognition one that is). Everyone seems to disagree whether Mayweather's victories over the two are better or worse than Pacquiao's, which suggests they are pretty inseperable and not a conclusive factor in the Mayweather v Pacquiao debate. For the record I personally view it as a style vs. substance scenario, with Mayweather's wins being over the slightly more able versions of each fighter and Pacquiao's nature of victory being the more spectacular.

Both seem to have a few career defining fights looming on the horizon, the one holding the greatest significance obviously being the actual head-to-head between the two men, and so I think any categorical assertions on their comparative historical standings are premature. I can't wait to see how these threads look after 2010.

[STILL_DETOX]

we'll see after they fight each other

[Ray*]

Any of those ATGs struggled with some fighters of their generation. Even Floyd struggled with a non ATG fighter in Castillo. But JMM is an ATG too, so it's no shame for Pac not to annihilate JMM.

How would anyone define ATG??? JMM for me isnt an ATG unless the level have been lowered so much for people like him to get through.

[Pacdbest]

How would anyone define ATG??? JMM for me isnt an ATG unless the level have been lowered so much for people like him to get through.

OK I lower JMM to HOF. PBF still struggled with Castillo who's not a HOFamer.

[DonTaseMeBrah]

Pacquiao

TS, if you want to judge who the better fighter is on technical boxing ability then sure Floyd. But the buck stops there. ATG lists are not made up of the best technical boxers, if it were you would have guys such as PBF, B-HOP, Whitaker, Pepp etc much higher. Furthermore you wan't to judge these two when theyre age 16 when Pac was a pro, and floyd had 6 losses in the amateurs? Floyd was groomed to fight from the get go. Manny was not. Over the last 10 years which fighter has evolved more? Life ain't about being perfect, it's about improving. Judging them both by the same standards Pac done the following:

1. Won more lineal titles than Mayweather
2. Won more world titles than Mayweather.
3. Became a world champion the same time as floyd, considering floyds retirements he's been a world champion longer.
4. Pac's career has spanned more weight classes.
5. Pac has fought in more weight classes.
6. Pac has won 6 world titles in 6 different weight classes.
7. If Pac beats Cotto, he will have his 3rd fighter of the year award which would be more than pbf & a record and 7 titles in 7 weight classes
8. Ring magazine named Pac fighter of the decade for the 2000s.
9. Pac's resume/overall body of work is better than Floyds (refer to any number of previous polls done on here.
10. Pac caters to the fans a lot more than pbf does in that he consistently looks to challenge himself and take the toughest fights.

Now the above are just in the ring, outside the ring:
1. Pac's story is amazing. Something hollywood couldnt even dream of. Can you name a better rags to riches story? As good maybe, but better? No way.
2. Pac was rated in forbes top 100 most influential people in the world.
3. The man has his face on a stamp in the phillipines.
4. The crime rate in Manilla drops to near 0 only during his fights.
5. A civil war seizes fire for 24 hours during his fights.
6. In 6 years since the Barrera fight he has climbe to the top, defied odds & taken over boxing the old fashioned way.
7. He's got a nike commercial with Kobe Bryant coming out next month.
8. He's got former presidents wanting to see him.
9. Future president of his country.
10. A symbol of hope for 100,000,000 people around the globe.
11. He can barely speak english but he's made boxing hot again, something floyd has never and will never do.

If there was an argument about them inside the ring, there isn't anymore when you consider them outside the ring.

Despite all the above, floyd is a better technical boxer. Pac is a better fighter. As Thomas Hauser said, boxing is a skill, fighting is the spirit in which you display that skill. Pac represents the best of boxing. Pac is a higher ATG at this time.

You summed up your problem when you started barking about Pac's losses. Nobody is perfect. That's ignorance at it's best. Human nature will appreciate a man who takes risks and faces the jaws of defeat over a man that stays outside that radius. For these reasons Pac is the greatest fighter on the planet.

If you look carefully at the ATG list you'll see the common denominator are the losses.

game over.