Greater fighter Toney or Calzaghe?

[hookoutofhell]

Do you think Joe didn't look right against Hopkins because of age or just a bad night? Could it have been Hopkins? Speaking of Bernard, he didn't look so hot himself. Could we attribute that to age as well? He's many more boxing years older than Joe.

Toney at his best beats Calzaghe, prime for prime. I don't think he knocks him out but I suspect he'd floor him a couple times. A prime Toney was extremely active as well, had great defense, amazing skills on the inside, good counterpunches and was very fluid in the ring. He was considered by many to be the world's best fighter. And his quality of opposition backed it up. He's rightfully the greater fighter because he beat names like McCallum, Nunn, Jirov and others while winning titles in three divisions, almost four.

bernard has a very disciplined approach and an extremely strong work ethic. he knows hes not the most talented fighter but hes smart and makes the most of what hes got. i think hes a gym rat as well and because of his diet and everything else has aged really well. he may be 40+ but i think hed compare favourably to many mid 30year olds.

i think joe looked poor vs hopkins because of a number of reasosn: 1) it was calzaghe himself he understimated hopkins i think alot of people did 2) calzaghe did look a little bit pudgy and imo his speed wasn't there that night 3) hopkins is a very good spoiler, he came well prepped and with a good gameplan formulated by roach and richardson.

i agree with you that calzaghe tasting the canvas is a possibility. calzaghe often has poor foot positioning when he comes in and can be countered with the right (either straight or the uppercut). i dont think calzaghe would be hurt or wobbled but i think he might be buzzed like he was in the kess fight.

prime toney maybe active but not many fighters can live with zaghe and when he forces the fight it makes the opponent uncomfortable, it doesn't give them the same time to think or set themselves. the sheer volume of calz's work would be hard to overlook and his own resume is imo underrated.

its a pick em fight imo. as a big a fan as i am of calz i know that toney is a nightmare stylistically for him and has a better chance of beating him than anyone else (RJJ, dawson, g-man, hopkins) and many a time i wouldn't diagree with a prediction of toney via UD. it would depend on how calz adapts and its because of that that i find it hard to pick against joe (or maybe thats just the fan in me :P).

[Shadows]

Why not rise above your prejudice and recognize Joe for being the great fighter he was? But you'd need to be a better man to do that - I honestly don't think you're able to.


I've never seen you post a positive comment about any white fighter, and there's none in the list in your sig.

To be fair, he does have Carl Froch and Arthur Abraham in his sig....

Anyways, prime vs. prime, I'd pick Toney, but I don't think it would come "easily" as some fans from both sides have said.

[King_Lukas]

Another biased Joe fan,

Had to put up with many of them down the years.

[hammerhiem]

calzaghe wouldent beat nunn or maccallum, watch those guys fight and u'll see what im saying, nor would he beat a prime roy jones, or jirov and holyfield (let alone stop holy).

Calzaghe would have beat the snot out of McCallum the one that Toney fought anyway, he was 36 (41 in the second figth) and Calzaghe's speed and pace would have been to much.

The Nunn and the RJJ that Toney fought would have beaten Cal imo.

As for a Toney vs Cal fight at 168, well lets put it this way Toney was never prime at 168 and Calzaghe would have beaten him.

[#1Assassin]

Why not rise above your prejudice and recognize Joe for being the great fighter he was? But you'd need to be a better man to do that - I honestly don't think you're able to.


I've never seen you post a positive comment about any white fighter, and there's none in the list in your sig.

u have issues man. why cant u just talk about boxing? everytime u dont have nothing to say u resort to race. my mom is white ffs. im half white, most girls ive been with are white and i have several close white friends.

i praise white fighters all the time too. and both abraham and froch are in my list btw. abraham who i picked to win the whole tourney and acctually think of making a trip to watch. so stop talking out of your ass.

it has nothing to do with prejudice. calzaghes career just doesnt impress me. and i made several valid points why. i know u and valid points dont exactly go hand in hand.

[IMDAZED]

bernard has a very disciplined approach and an extremely strong work ethic. he knows hes not the most talented fighter but hes smart and makes the most of what hes got. i think hes a gym rat as well and because of his diet and everything else has aged really well. he may be 40+ but i think hed compare favourably to many mid 30year olds.

i think joe looked poor vs hopkins because of a number of reasosn: 1) it was calzaghe himself he understimated hopkins i think alot of people did 2) calzaghe did look a little bit pudgy and imo his speed wasn't there that night 3) hopkins is a very good spoiler, he came well prepped and with a good gameplan formulated by roach and richardson.

i agree with you that calzaghe tasting the canvas is a possibility. calzaghe often has poor foot positioning when he comes in and can be countered with the right (either straight or the uppercut). i dont think calzaghe would be hurt or wobbled but i think he might be buzzed like he was in the kess fight.

prime toney maybe active but not many fighters can live with zaghe and when he forces the fight it makes the opponent uncomfortable, it doesn't give them the same time to think or set themselves. the sheer volume of calz's work would be hard to overlook and his own resume is imo underrated.

its a pick em fight imo. as a big a fan as i am of calz i know that toney is a nightmare stylistically for him and has a better chance of beating him than anyone else (RJJ, dawson, g-man, hopkins) and many a time i wouldn't diagree with a prediction of toney via UD. it would depend on how calz adapts and its because of that that i find it hard to pick against joe (or maybe thats just the fan in me :P).

Good points. Prime Toney IMO was a better fighter than Calzaghe. His resume is better, however, and that's why I'd rank him higher. But in a fight, it would've been interesting.

[street bully]

Prime for prime Toney murks Calzaghe. Calzaghe can'ty **** witht he three amigo's prime for prime.

[TheCheetah]

James Toney hands down...

[hookoutofhell]

Good points. Prime Toney IMO was a better fighter than Calzaghe. His resume is better, however, and that's why I'd rank him higher. But in a fight, it would've been interesting.

personally i think calz's resume is very underrated, i think because he faced alot of euro fighters and some of the american fans and pundits don't recognize their skills. but thats another debate for another day. agreed that toney has the better wins but not by as much as some people make out because i think his losses count against him.

how do you see calzaghe vs toney playing out, at first i thought that calz would adapt and edge him out. but recently iv been thinking a physically primed calzaghe might just get bullish when faced with toney and end up going at him gung-ho. that approach might just make it alot easier for toney.

[#1Assassin]

personally i think calz's resume is very underrated, i think because he faced alot of euro fighters and some of the american fans and pundits don't recognize their skills. but thats another debate for another day. agreed that toney has the better wins but not by as much as some people make out because i think his losses count against him.

how do you see calzaghe vs toney playing out, at first i thought that calz would adapt and edge him out. but recently iv been thinking a physically primed calzaghe might just get bullish when faced with toney and end up going at him gung-ho. that approach might just make it alot easier for toney.

im european adn i think his resume sucks (compared to ppl like toney). most the guys he fougth were just guys who couldnt make it at 160 so they tried 168 instead were the competition was easier. hopkins gets no credit for dominating keith holmes, yet calzaghe gets credit for struggling with fighters who got stretched by holmes.

joes resume is weak, simple as that. i mean i watch kessler and im just not impressed, i watch his resume and im plain embarassed. ppl use the yank excuse way to often. its not about nationality, his resume is just weak.