Calzaghe Fans!!

[Silkstone]

Yes.

Amen, mate.

[boxasmash]

calzaghe definitely deserves to be ranked alongside hopkins and jones, they one up him a bit in terms of legacy (not by what it's made out) but prime 4 prime he belongs in their company.

[x-PeROxiDE-x]

If you're asking if Calzaghe COULD have beaten them in their respective primes, then the answer is most definitely yes.

Any fighter can lose to any other fighter on any given day (Tyson vs Douglas, anyone?)

If the question you're asking is WOULD Calzaghe have beaten them in their respective primes, you're stepping into a minefield.

Calzaghe had a "better than most" chance of beating both of these fighters, which is what contributed to the fact that neither man fought him until they had nothing to lose. Calzaghe wanted them both in their primes, yet neither wanted him. Whether this has to do with money or not is irrelevant, they both fought lesser fighters than Calzaghe for what would have probably been less money (either fight would have created good PPV revenue in the UK).

The hardcore fans of both fighters will forever protest that Calzaghe didn't deserve a shot, but when presented with the reasonable arguement that they fought lesser fighters instead they keep repeating their original point that Calzaghe was a bum who had fought nobody, hardly a constructive debate.

RJJ himself said something along the lines of "Why fight someone dangerous when I can earn just as much money fighting a nobody?" (not an exact quote, but close enough to prove my point) and Hopkins actually agreed to a fight in the US, then when he realised Joe was serious, doubled the money he was asking for, making it a rediculous proposition (Hopkins is not ******, he knows what numbers were do-able and what numbers weren't).

Whether anybody thinks Joe would beat them or not doesn't change the fact that they BOTH had the chance to fight him when they were in their prime, yet neither man did.

For the record, I think that Joe would have had a better chance against Hopkins than RJJ.

An RJJ fight would have been 60-40 in Roy's favour (Roy was indeed good, but nowhere near the unbeatable "Superman" abilities that most on here would claim), but a Hopkins fight would have been a 60-40 in Joe's favour.

[713832281]

rjj destroys slappy in 4, ex schools him for 12 rounds en route to a UD.

[x-PeROxiDE-x]

> After beating a passed it Eubank and getting his first belt, there was not much else to do. He got the WBO, and the division was nothing big. He should have unified it straight away within a few years.

None of the other champions would fight him. Believe me, Joe tried.

> Instead he went after nobodies and mandatories with the same WBO belt in the same poor division, facing guys in half-empty stadiums. I don't know why, since he could have easily unified it straight away. The champs were absoloute jokes, i mean Ottke was one of them!

Ottke straight up dodged Joe. Even if they had offered to have the fight in Ottke's living room with his dad as the referee, this fight was not possible.

> He wanted RJJ and Hopkins, but they were marquee fighters, and no way were they going to change weight, come to Wales, and face someone for the one WBO belt, too little reward. They were after big money bouts. This is where he should have Fired Warren, like Hatton did.

Joe offered to fight them both in the States, and can you really say that the people they were fighting at the time were as good as Joe? You couldn't even claim that they earned more money than they would have done fighting Joe, as the guys they were fighting were hardly big name guys. Say what you want about the WBO belt, but a fighter like RJJ or Hopkins stepping up in weight to fight an established champion? That **** sells.

> His next big bout came 9 years later against Lacy. Over-Rated or Under-Rated, it was still big for Joe, and he won convincingly. This was the moment he could have established himself properly.

After dismantling Lacy, who lets not forget was regarded as the "next big thing" by most Americans, even more people avoided him. The only fights he could get at this point were average fighters with nothing to lose who were just trying to score an upset and make a name for themselves.

> He should have gone straight to the marquee fighters and tried proper to get Hopkins and RJJ. In 2006, they were both passed it, but at the time, would have been intresting. Hopkins went onto to move up two weight classes beating LH champ Tarver and Winky, RJJ some medicore guys.
Calzaghe tried going for Johnson but pulled out

Again, after dismantling Lacy, fighters were even more wary of fighting him. Also, he injured his hand training for the fight against Johnson. Are you honestly saying Joe should have fought him one-handed? By the way, Johnson had agreed to fight Joe on a number of occasions (3, I think?) and Joe pulled out each time with genuine injuries. At this point, Johnson lost interest, a decision most people would have made so no hard feelings against him for that.

> Instead, he carried on the same awful division. Okay Lacy was hardly a recognized p4p boxer who made any impact, but it was a stepping stone for Joe. Instead, he went back to facing Mandatories.

Joe's mandatories were the only people who would fight him.

> Had the chance for some semi-big bouts against Johnson, but pulled out twice or thrice citing Injury. (Warren explain what really happened after he was fired)

Warren had sour g****s because his cash cow deserted him. Understandable? Yes. A reason to fabricate blatant lies? No.

> Finally, after 10 years, a whole decade, he unified the SMW division after beating Kessler. Although a poor division, a Unified champion is a unified champion, and he finally made his chance for big payday bouts.

Kessler was the only other champion throughout Joe's entire reign who actually had the balls to step into the ring with an obviously dangerous fighter.

> Too little, too late it seems. Hopkins at 40+ was no longer the marquee fighter he was post 2001.
RJJ was an absolute joke that should have retired after being dangerously KO'd twice by Tarver and Johnson years before.

Which is why they were both in a win-win situation. If they lost, they were old, if they won, they would be regarded as even more of a legend than they were before.

> He decided on facing Hopkins, taking a dodgy SD against the 43 year old, then a shot to bits RJJ at 40.

Joe beat the man in front of him. You can ask nothing more of a fighter. Just because they wouldn't fight him when they were in their primes is not a reflection on Joe. Hopkins age was obviously irrelevant, also. Kelly Pavlik, a younger, dangerous fighter and the man many picked to beat Calzaghe, was thoroughly schooled by Hopkins in his very next fight.

What could have been. He could have faced Hopkins, RJJ, Toney, Tarver etc.

Hopkins and RJJ both definitely had offers to fight Joe, and refused. Joe cannot be blamed for that.

Okay he may have lost some, but at least it was no nonsense involved. No engineered career.

Joe's career only looks engineered because many of the top fighters at the time wanted nothing to do with him. Again, Joe cannot be blamed for that.

You yourself have to admit, he had opportunities on the table, but he never took them.

If you can provide evidence that Joe turned down a fight with any of the fighters you have named, I will retract this statement. Until you can, I'm calling bull**** on this one.

[pesticid]

First off, Hopkins is a better fighter now than when he fought Trinidad. He beat Winky and destroyed Tarver and Pavlik who are big men and not a little kid with sme fatty ******* fighting at 160lbs. So I odn't know how Hopkins was not in his prime.

But it doesn't matter anyway, cause they chose to fight him late in the States and he tore them up. At least roy took his beating like a man, Bernard pissed himself and had to get some timeouts with the inadequate Cortez helping him out along the way, and not to forget the extreme clinching at running. Bernard saw something in Joe and it scared him ****less. Watch any other Bernard fight and tell me if he fought like a sheep as he did against Joe.

[mathed]

rjj destroys slappy in 4, ex schools him for 12 rounds en route to a UD.

RJJ could legitimately be accused of fighting bums as much if not more so than Joe for the majority of his career as well and I think Joe gives him a run for his money at any stage and BHOP too. Have you seen many young Calzaghe fights? He was more aggressive and an avid body destroyer that was a very straight puncher believe it or not. He developed that "slappy style" as it has been described by posters around his mid-career- check out some early footage of Joe and you might give him some much due credit for being a truly tough guy.

[baracuda]

Whether or not they would beat him is speculation.

"_____ would have done this",

"______ would have done that".

Bull****. Saying Calzaghe would have beat them both is no more far fetched than saying they would beat him. Nobody knows. Stop trying to convince yourselves that a particular outcome would be assured. THAT is delusional. There one thing that's absolutely not up for debate. They both LOST to Joe Calzaghe. That is the only fact.

that's the fairest way to see it.....way to go sam!

[x-PeROxiDE-x]

RJJ could legitimately be accused of fighting bums as much if not more so than Joe for the majority of his career as well and I think Joe gives him a run for his money at any stage and BHOP too. Have you seen many young Calzaghe fights? He was more aggressive and an avid body destroyer that was a very straight puncher believe it or not. He developed that "slappy style" as it has been described by posters around his mid-career- check out some early footage of Joe and you might give him some much due credit for being a truly tough guy.

Unfortunately, although everything you say is true, you are ****ing your head against a brick wall.

Most American boxing fans will give credit to Hopkins for altering his style to increase his longevity, yet criticise Joe for doing exactly the same.

[Latin king]

Yes he would!! IMO!!