Calzaghe and Dawson: a double standard about fighting old opponents

[Dave Rado]

How did Joe go about proposing it? Constant offers in England. He knew that would not fly.

On the contrary, because he was unknown in the States at that time, there was no money on the table for either of them to fight him in the States, whereas there was reasonably good money (a $3 million purse was offered to both of them) available to them to fight him in the UK, because either fight would have been considered a mega-fight in the UK back then and could have sold out a football stadium. And he was willing to fight in the States, it's a myth that he wasn't. But there was no money for a fight there at that time because he was unknown there until he beat Lacy.

[Dave Rado]

Ok, show of hands...how many of you claiming Jones avoided Calzaghe in his prime were following boxing back then. Come on, don't be shy.

Who claimed that Roy avoided Calzaghe? I haven't seen any posts making that claim. Roy had no reason to fight Calzaghe back then. There have been posts saying that Calzaghe wanted the fight to happen, and yes I followed boxing back then, and I remember well all the speculation in the UK back then about whether Warren would be able to pull it off, but Calzaghe simply wasn't on Roy's radar back then. He was an unknown and was in a different weight division. Plus Calzaghe was tied to Showtime and Roy was tied to HBO, which complicated things a lot.

And you've acknowledged in the past that he did do everything he reasonably could have to make a fight with Hopkins in 2002.

[IMDAZED]

Who claimed that Roy avoided Calzaghe? I haven't seen any posts making that claim. Roy had no reason to fight Calzaghe back then. There have been posts saying that Calzaghe wanted the fight to happen, and yes I followed boxing back then, and I remember well all the speculation in the UK back then about whether Warren would be able to pull it off, but Calzaghe simply wasn't on Roy's radar back then. He was an unknown and was in a different weight division. Plus Calzaghe was tied to Showtime and Roy was tied to HBO, which complicated things a lot.

And you've acknowledged in the past that he did do everything he reasonably could have to make a fight with Hopkins in 2002.

Fair points, Dave. I think we agree on both. I don't think Hopkins nor Jones avoided him, in fact that's silly. Sometimes we have to step back as fans and say, forget how much we like this or that fighter, this is how the situation was. There are two sides at play here, one who refuses to give Calzaghe any credit and the other who thinks of him too highly. Naturally, the debate evolves into talk over his prime and the other great fighters of that time. Do I think Calzaghe did everything he could do to make a fight with those guys? Nope. I'm not taking anything away from him, he's had a fine career. But bringing up a contract offer or some overtures made following a ripping victory over God knows who doesn't do it for me. But getting back to this debate over Joe and Chad...forgot Hopkins and Jones, there were other fighters who Calzaghe never fought either. I think if he dismantled someone akin to Tomasz Adamek in his prime, the threadstarter might have a point. Then again, anyone who's complaining about Dawson choosing Johnson over Cloud is just ridiculous. Unlike some, I'm not complaining about it I'm looking forward to it.

[Dave Rado]

Then again, anyone who's complaining about Dawson choosing Johnson over Cloud is just ridiculous. Unlike some, I'm not complaining about it I'm looking forward to it.

Absolutely, it's the fight everyone was criticising him for not taking, until he took it, so it's a bit weird that anyone would criticise him for finally agreeing to the fight, especially when it means having to relinquish his belt.

[Iceta]

Interesting how Joe Calzaghe took so much abuse on this forum for fighting two old fighters, Bernard Hopkins and Roy Jones Jr.

Chad Dawson will now have FOUR fights in a row against 40 year olds, but the same people who were so hard on Calzaghe are not saying anything - in fact they are making excuses for Dawson.

The age 26 Dawson dropped TWO titles to avoid mandatories with prime opponents (Adrian Diaconu and Tavoris Cloud) in order to fight 40 year olds. As well, he avoided Diaconu in June 2007 and fought clubfighter Jesus Ruiz, and again avoided him early in 2008 to take the first fight with Johnson.

Calzaghe was old himself, he had been an amateur in the late 80s and pro since the early 90s and now is retired, while Dawson is in his 20s.



Why did Calzaghe take so much criticism, while Dawson gets away with it? I'm sure for pointing this out, I will receive a lot of criticism myself - but no one said much about those like bsrizpac who expressed their extreme displeasure with Calzaghe day after day in this forum .

Is there a double standard?

I don't care for Dawson, but you can't blame him for not fighting Diaconu when the dude pulled out of the fight a week before it was scheduled. I'll bet Dawson gave up the WBC belt because he was afraid that Diaconu would pull out again and I don't blame him. The guy is injury-prone and he's not even that good. Now the fact that he circumvented a way around Tavoris Cloud holds more weight to it. There are rumors that Cloud gave Chad the business in sparring. And even though I think Cloud would beat Dawson I am also picking Glen Johnson to whip his ass in the rematch like he did the first time and got robbed. So I'm not really mad at Chad for giving the old warrior his deserved rematch. I wouldn't have been mad at Chad if he fought Cloud either. It's just which poison he wants to pick. And even though I'm critical of Calzaghe's resume, I view him as a great fighter and if he came back out of retirement he would dominate Chad Dawson.

[The Hammer]

I don't care for Dawson, but you can't blame him for not fighting Diaconu when the dude pulled out of the fight a week before it was scheduled. I'll bet Dawson gave up the WBC belt because he was afraid that Diaconu would pull out again and I don't blame him. The guy is injury-prone and he's not even that good. Now the fact that he circumvented a way around Tavoris Cloud holds more weight to it. There are rumors that Cloud gave Chad the business in sparring. And even though I think Cloud would beat Dawson I am also picking Glen Johnson to whip his ass in the rematch like he did the first time and got robbed. So I'm not really mad at Chad for giving the old warrior his deserved rematch. I wouldn't have been mad at Chad if he fought Cloud either. It's just which poison he wants to pick. And even though I'm critical of Calzaghe's resume, I view him as a great fighter and if he came back out of retirement he would dominate Chad Dawson.

I think Chad is showing a pattern of avoiding prime punchers: first Diaconu, now Cloud.

He prefers to take the safer fight with a 40 year old who's not as hungry and has slowed down.

[Dave Rado]

He prefers to take the safer fight with a 40 year old who's not as hungry and has slowed down.

Johnson not hungry? LOL! Didn't you watch their first fight? I've seen very few fighters as hungry as Johnson in that fight. He was all heart and most people thought he deserved the nod on the cards, so to call it the safer fight is just crazy.

[The Hammer]

Johnson not hungry? LOL! Didn't you watch their first fight? I've seen very few fighters as hungry as Johnson in that fight. He was all heart and most people thought he deserved the nod on the cards, so to call it the safer fight is just crazy.

Johnson showed his age against Judah - he's finally starting to slow down.

That's probably why Dawson has changed his mind about giving him the rematch. I remember Dawson saying about a year ago he would not fight Johnson again.

[Dave Rado]

Johnson showed his age against Judah - he's finally starting to slow down.

Johnson has always been nothing if not inconsistent, you can't possibly put so much on that fight. He did what he needed to do to win, and he won very convincingly. And even if you're right that his age is getting to him, that's all the more reason why Dawson should give him the rematch he deserves as soon as possible. Cloud isn't going anywhere, they can fight any time.

That's probably why Dawson has changed his mind about giving him the rematch. I remember Dawson saying about a year ago he would not fight Johnson again.

He didn't say he wouldn't ever fight him again, just that there were bigger fights for him at that time.

And everyone has been accusing him of ducking Johnson, so it's massive double standards not to applaud him for finally making the fight.

If Cloud beats Woods convincingly, and Dawson beats Johnson convincingly, then Dawson-Cloud would be a big money fight, which it is certainly not at present.

[Iceta]

Johnson showed his age against Judah - he's finally starting to slow down.

That's probably why Dawson has changed his mind about giving him the rematch. I remember Dawson saying about a year ago he would not fight Johnson again.

I think Cloud is the truth but I don't view Diaconu as a world class fighter at all. The guy barely squeaked by Chris Henry who went on to lose convincingly to Yusaf Mack. Henry got stopped in that fight didn't he? I watched it on ESPN but I don't remember if it went the distance or it ended in a stoppage. My point is though I don't view Diaconu as anything special.