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**Benny Leonard** · 05-28-2009, 01:30 AM

QUOTE=Soir;5376633]Im bored of these "What-Ifs and maybes. Here are the Facts

Fact 1: Lewis defeated every opponent he ever faced professionally.

True

Fact 2: One of those opponents was Tyson in an actual head to head match up. Lewis(36 years old) Tyson(35 years old)

True, but Tyson was shot...

You can bring up the age all you want but everybody ages different based on genetics and the way they live their life.

Tyson was well trained up to Spinks. After that...he trained on his own.

Then, you factor in 3 years in prison rotting away and when he comes out, he doesn't get himself back on track with a trainer that is right for him. He even said he was only fighting to pay back Uncle Sam. He even joked that he was fighting for weed money. His main vice was said to be the bottle.
He didn't want to be a fighter anymore and he knew he was ****...which is also why he paid off Lennox at this time. Tyson was buying time before he cashed out vs. Lewis. He had too. A loss to Lewis would have ended his milking of boxing...something he had to do in order to get the I.R.S. off his back and setup his kids.

But he put it nicely in his retirement speech: My career has been over since 1990.

Fact 3: Tyson did not avenge a single loss in his entire 50-6 Pro career

True, but Tyson after Spinks wasn't the same fighter and this has been discussed by historians, Pro boxers, trainers and analysts.. And, he did try to get a rematch with Douglas and Douglas refused. Post-Prison Tyson...not even worth discussing.

The main argument Im getting is that Tysons prime conveniently finished at 22 years old. Who the hell begins to decline after age 22? Especially a guy like Mike who had never been in any serious wars prior to the Douglas fight?

A person that decides not to train and throws away his career. What key figure helped get him there?
ROONEY. Who was Rooney? A former fighter that trained under Cus D'Amato who built up fighters both Mentally and Physically to reach their absolute peak and make them over-achieve.
Rooney not only trained Mike in a perfect style that suited his size, but he kept Mike trained both Mentally and Physically and under Cayton's management, Tyson was a very active fighter.
Rooney supplied the training and the game-plan and the coaching through each and every fight he was with him during the fight.
He was also motivated during that time; although there was cracks in the wall leading up to the Spinks fight. McCall talked about this as well. Tyson had to get refocused. Tyson also gives clues of his state of mind in the post-press conference after the Spinks fight.

And, if you want to bring up Bruno, that post-press conference is also very telling.

Tyson was said to actually be the only person Cus had that was a true phenom and didn't have to protect.

Easy question to answer if you are knowledgeable:

Does any version of Tyson post Rooney...after Spinks...beat any version of Tyson from when he won the title against Berbick on through his win against Spinks?

Rooney-Tyson vs. Post-Rooney-Tyson

If Tyson was prime enough to beat wbc champ Frank Bruno in 3 rounds in 1995, then he is prime enough take Evander Holyfield in 1996. No excuses for Tysons losses.

Tyson wasn't in his prime. He wasn't shot, but he wasn't in his prime. Prime is when you are fighting at a high level and either at your best or very close to it if you want to give it a loose interpretation of "prime."

**Benny Leonard** · 05-28-2009, 01:54 AM

Brooks always held out hope for Iron Mike

By Adrian Wojnarowski
Special to ESPN.com

http://espn.go.com/columns/wojnarows...n/1317765.html

Beyond the promise of a series of solid paydays for training Mike Tyson, Tommy Brooks always had a fleeting belief that if he just could reach Tyson, just get him to listen, get him to work, Tyson could still be the best heavyweight fighter in the world

After all the years, all the disgrace, Brooks was certain Tyson could still do it. Beyond the wild nights, the disgusting, criminal acts, Tommy Brooks believed he could turn the raw rage and punching power into that long-gone 20-year-old machine.

"He's got more talent in his little finger than most all the rest of them," Brooks said. "Even now."

This is the tease of Tyson. This is what keeps everyone coming back again and again.

"(Tyson's) been cutting corners for so long, I'm not sure he knows another way now," Brooks said. "I'm regretful that a guy with so much talent and ability just went down the tubes. That's why I left Evander Holyfield. But if I had any indication that my watch with him would be like this, I would've stayed with Evander."

Looking back, Brooks should've had every indication: There are no happy endings with this man. In the end, there's just disappointment, disillusionment and disgust. On the eve of Tyson playing his part as America's carnival act at a New York news conference Tuesday, there came a call to Brooks' New Jersey office. Tyson fired him. Actually, Tyson's people fired him.

Brooks wasn't surprised. Tyson and the trainer hadn't talked for several months. The fighter is struggling to meet his payroll. After handling Tyson for the six fights since the end of his year-long suspension for flipping out on Holyfield, guess who was going? Do you think it was going to be Tyson's Yes-men enablers, or the trainer unafraid to tell the fighter the painful truth?

"I'm disappointed that I didn't see the guy back to the title," Brooks said. "But I'm relieved that I don't have to deal with the idiots around him anymore. You've got guys backstabbing you, undermining what you're trying to accomplish in the gym. A majority of them didn't see the big picture. They were just living paycheck to paycheck from him."

Which is what most of boxing does with Tyson, feed off him payday to payday. Everybody gets rich on his bad act. With Brooks, Tyson had little chance to beat Lewis. Without him, he has none. Even so, there's a good chance that Tyson never makes it to Vegas on April 6. It's ridiculous to think the melee in Manhattan could be the foundation for the Nevada Boxing Commission refusing to license Tyson.

What, now Tyson's nuts? All of a sudden that proves it? Come on. If they were going to let him fight before Tuesday, they should let him fight now.

"He's crazy like a fox," Brooks said. What people ought to be outraged about with Tyson isn't the staged lunacy of a news conference, but the revelation that charges could be brought against him for an alleged **** in Nevada. Again. This should inspire the rage of the moralists. The press conference? That's what people want out of Tyson, what they come to see, what they expect.

For that alleged victim visiting Tyson's Las Vegas home months ago there are no tidy clips for the nightly news, no x-rated sound bites for the boom mikes. She's an alleged part of Tyson's act, part of his twisted persona, and that didn't seem so important to his Vegas licensing hearing until his WWF moment in New York.

"Every time he's done something, he's come back," Brooks said. "He's like a bus wreck waiting to happen, but he always skirts (trouble). I told him many times, 'We live in a society. They've got rules and ethics, and if you don't conform, they've got a place for you.' They'll only put up with it so long. I hope to God that Mike doesn't get put in that place, because this time, he won't last there."

Perhaps Tyson belongs back in prison. Once more, the criminal justice system will decide. Even without the looming charges, there's this question on the sheer merits of his fight record: Does he deserve a title shot, never mind this ridiculous two-fight series? More than that, does Tyson truly want the fight?

"At times he does and at times, he doesn't," Brooks said. "If he could go fight Lewis and not train, he'd do it. He'd just show up and take his best shot on sheer ability. Mike only trained for two weeks, and he made it 11 rounds with Holyfield."

This is the lure of Tyson. This is the tease. People still think there's one more great fight in him, one final flash of a long ago glory. But there isn't. He's done. Trouble is, it's hard to stop watching him.

Tommy Brooks understands. It's hard resisting the possibilities, harder to truly believe they're gone now. All gone.

**Benny Leonard** · 05-28-2009, 01:57 AM

Not the same fighter as this version below:

**Dave Rado** · 05-28-2009, 05:32 AM