Joe Calzaghe Would Continue if Knocked Out Like Hatton

[Dirk Diggler UK]

Even if I didn't presently have a woman, I'd still need more interesting totty than that to get excited over.

Seriously? If i squint my eyes a little, I could probably hammer one out to Loose Women

[MACAQUEINBLACK]

Seriously? If i squint my eyes a little, I could probably hammer one out to Loose Women

LOL In the absence of something worth getting hard over, my imagination would provide the material.


Last time I watched Hollyoaks, this was the level of stimulation on offer,

[IMG]http://www.******media.com/images/becca-290x400.jpg[/IMG]



Last time I watched Loose Women, that Lindsay Corkhill ***** was on there.

Rather you than me, mate.

[WESS]

Early Lucas?

Last film I watched was Blue Velvet on ITV 3 or 4, last night. LOL

His first....

it's a must see....

[Dave Rado]

I posted way back in this thread that Hatton fought and lost to better fighters then Calzaghe has ever faced and the Calzaghe fans stepped in and it went from there like it usually does. Everyone then goes on to think they're right and these Calzaghe threads seem to go on forever.

No Calzaghe fan who is a genuine boxing fan would disagree with your statement above that "Hatton fought and lost to better fighters then Calzaghe has ever faced". Obviously that's true.

What they disagreed with was your odd statement earlier in the thread that Hopkins wasn't a P4P elite fighter when Calzaghe fought him. He wasn't as elite as Mayweather and Pac were, but he was still rated P4P #4 when Joe faced him and is rated P4P #3 now, which means he's still P4P elite now by any recognisable definition of the word "elite".

And the other thing Calzaghe fans who are genuine boxing fans keep pointing out is that Hatton was a big meal ticket for Pac and Floyd, that's why he was able to get those sort of fights; whereas Calzaghe couldn't generate enough money to tempt top fighters from outside his division until after he'd beaten Lacy (and even then he couldn't generate enough to tempt Taylor).

So the comparison between Hatton and Calzaghe is unfair, because Calzaghe didn't have the personality and promotional backing to be able to get those sort of fights back then. And despite one quote from 2003 in an obscure newspaper that Technical_Skill keeps quoting, there is plenty of evidence that Calzaghe did want the big fights back then, and that offers were made to Hopkins, in particular, and Jones.

A small number of Calzaghe fans then spoiled it by claiming that Jones and Hopkins ducked Calzaghe, which IMO is a really ****** and ridiculous claim, and just gets Jones' and Hopkins' fans riled for no reason. They had no reason to fight him back then; he generated no money then and was not in their weight division, so how can it be called ducking? And Calzaghe would have lost to both of them in their primes, IMO, but would have made them very competitive fights in both cases, and losing competitively to such great fighters would have enhanced his legacy, not diminished it.

Personally, I think this whole debate is silly: as IMDAZED keeps saying, the guy has retired, his legacy is what it is (Hall of Fame and top 5 British fighter of all time but not ATG in world terms, or very near the bottom of the top 100 at best). But those who couldn't resist the temptation to turn what should have been a Hatton thread into a Calzaghe thread, and to make misleading and unfair comparisons between the two fighers, shouldn't be surprised if some people try to correct what they see as unfair comparisons.

And people like Wess trying to pretend that the Calzaghe fans who have posted in this thread have compared Calzaghe to the likes of Ali are just being ridiculous. No one has compared him with those sorts of fighters or ever claimed that he's even in the top 100 ATGs in world terms, so hater posts like that are uncalled for.

[Chunk..]

No Calzaghe fan who is a genuine boxing fan would disagree with your statement above that "Hatton fought and lost to better fighters then Calzaghe has ever faced". Obviously that's true.

What they disagreed with was your odd statement earlier in the thread that Hopkins wasn't a P4P elite fighter when Calzaghe fought him. He wasn't as elite as Mayweather and Pac were, but he was still rated P4P #4 when Joe faced him and is rated P4P #3 now, which means he's still P4P elite now by any recognisable definition of the word "elite".

And the other thing Calzaghe fans who are genuine boxing fans keep pointing out is that Hatton was a big meal ticket for Pac and Floyd, that's why he was able to get those sort of fights; whereas Calzaghe couldn't generate enough money to tempt top fighters from outside his division until after he'd beaten Lacy (and even then he couldn't generate enough to tempt Taylor).

So the comparison between Hatton and Calzaghe is unfair, because Calzaghe didn't have the personality and promotional backing to be able to get those sort of fights back then. And despite one quote from 2003 in an obscure newspaper that Technical_Skill keeps quoting, there is plenty of evidence that Calzaghe did want the big fights back then, and that offers were made to Hopkins, in particular, and Jones.

A small number of Calzaghe fans then spoiled it by claiming that Jones and Hopkins ducked Calzaghe, which IMO is a really ****** and ridiculous claim, and just gets Jones' and Hopkins' fans riled for no reason. They had no reason to fight him back then; he generated no money then and was not in their weight division, so how can it be called ducking? And Calzaghe would have lost to both of them in their primes, IMO, but would have made them very competitive fights in both cases, and losing competitively to such great fighters would have enhanced his legacy, not diminished it.

Personally, I think this whole debate is silly: as IMDAZED keeps saying, the guy has retired, his legacy is what it is (Hall of Fame and top 5 British fighter of all time but not ATG in world terms, or very near the bottom of the top 100 at best). But those who couldn't resist the temptation to turn what should have been a Hatton thread into a Calzaghe thread, and to make misleading and unfair comparisons between the two fighers, shouldn't be surprised if some people try to correct what they see as unfair comparisons.

And people like Wess trying to pretend that the Calzaghe fans who have posted in this thread have compared Calzaghe to the likes of Ali are just being ridiculous. No one has compared him with those sorts of fighters or ever claimed that he's even in the top 100 ATGs in world terms, so hater posts like that are uncalled for.

Good post, and fair enough. This thread is water under a bridge now as far as i'm concerned.

[WESS]

No Calzaghe fan who is a genuine boxing fan would disagree with your statement above that "Hatton fought and lost to better fighters then Calzaghe has ever faced". Obviously that's true.

What they disagreed with was your odd statement earlier in the thread that Hopkins wasn't a P4P elite fighter when Calzaghe fought him. He wasn't as elite as Mayweather and Pac were, but he was still rated P4P #4 when Joe faced him and is rated P4P #3 now, which means he's still P4P elite now by any recognisable definition of the word "elite".

And the other thing Calzaghe fans who are genuine boxing fans keep pointing out is that Hatton was a big meal ticket for Pac and Floyd, that's why he was able to get those sort of fights; whereas Calzaghe couldn't generate enough money to tempt top fighters from outside his division until after he'd beaten Lacy (and even then he couldn't generate enough to tempt Taylor).

So the comparison between Hatton and Calzaghe is unfair, because Calzaghe didn't have the personality and promotional backing to be able to get those sort of fights back then. And despite one quote from 2003 in an obscure newspaper that Technical_Skill keeps quoting, there is plenty of evidence that Calzaghe did want the big fights back then, and that offers were made to Hopkins, in particular, and Jones.

A small number of Calzaghe fans then spoiled it by claiming that Jones and Hopkins ducked Calzaghe, which IMO is a really ****** and ridiculous claim, and just gets Jones' and Hopkins' fans riled for no reason. They had no reason to fight him back then; he generated no money then and was not in their weight division, so how can it be called ducking? And Calzaghe would have lost to both of them in their primes, IMO, but would have made them very competitive fights in both cases, and losing competitively to such great fighters would have enhanced his legacy, not diminished it.

Personally, I think this whole debate is silly: as IMDAZED keeps saying, the guy has retired, his legacy is what it is (Hall of Fame and top 5 British fighter of all time but not ATG in world terms, or very near the bottom of the top 100 at best). But those who couldn't resist the temptation to turn what should have been a Hatton thread into a Calzaghe thread, and to make misleading and unfair comparisons between the two fighers, shouldn't be surprised if some people try to correct what they see as unfair comparisons.

And people like Wess trying to pretend that the Calzaghe fans who have posted in this thread have compared Calzaghe to the likes of Ali are just being ridiculous. No one has compared him with those sorts of fighters or ever claimed that he's even in the top 100 ATGs in world terms, so hater posts like that are uncalled for.

whereas Calzaghe couldn't generate enough money to tempt top fighters from outside his division until after he'd beaten Lacy (and even then he couldn't generate enough to tempt Taylor).

This is why I keep saying he should have came to the States 10 years ago. He could have made a name even if he would have gotten his ass beat by the P4P best LIKE Hatton...... it would have been a start.

So the comparison between Hatton and Calzaghe is unfair, because Calzaghe didn't have the personality and promotional backing to be able to get those sort of fights back then.

I DONT think its UNFAIR at all but again this is WHY I think he should have come to the States 10 years ago. But FAIR? Lifes not fair.......

They had no reason to fight him back then; he generated no money then and was not in their weight division, so how can it be called ducking? And Calzaghe would have lost to both of them in their primes, IMO, but would have made them very competitive fights in both cases, and losing competitively to such great fighters would have enhanced his legacy, not diminished it.

I think they had all the reasons to fight. Joe just DIDNT want to actually FLY away and leave his home, plus with Frank Warren by his side he couldnt leave even if he DID want to. IMO he would have lost to the both of them as well BUT he would have much more respect and I think he would have made A LOT more money over all. It would have enhanced his legacy in my books.

Personally, I think this whole debate is silly: as IMDAZED keeps saying, the guy has retired, his legacy is what it is (Hall of Fame and top 5 British fighter of all time but not ATG in world terms, or very near the bottom of the top 100 at best).

and I agree with this. He's no great. But derserves the HOF.

And people like Wess trying to pretend that the Calzaghe fans who have posted in this thread have compared Calzaghe to the likes of Ali are just being ridiculous. No one has compared him with those sorts of fighters or ever claimed that he's even in the top 100 ATGs in world terms, so hater posts like that are uncalled for.

and I was ONLY joking. It was a ridiculous comment that I figured would get a laugh. I didnt think anyone would take it personal. lol Come one man, Ali and Calzaghe? lol Anyway my point is if Joe would have left Frank and or came to the States 10 years ago I think he would have a better legacy than he does now, even with a few defeats. But hey he's retired and deserves the HOF for being the WBO champ for so long.

[Dave Rado]

I think they had all the reasons to fight. Joe just DIDNT want to actually FLY away and leave his home, plus with Frank Warren by his side he couldnt leave even if he DID want to.

It wasn't like Hopkins turned down the offer in 2002 on the basis of the location, and made a counter-offer for the fight to be in the States - he turned it down over money. (Ostensibly, anyway - some say the real reason was that he felt he was being stitched up by King, but the point is that location wasn't an issue at the time).

At that time, there was much more money to be made by Hopkins or Jones if they fought him in Britain, because of the fact that he was a complete unknown in the States back then. That's why Lacy took the fight in Manchester (and sensibly made sure that the ref and judges were international, not hometown).

Anyway my point is if Joe would have left Frank and or came to the States 10 years ago I think he would have a better legacy than he does now, even with a few defeats.

I agree up to a point, but he didn't have the personality at that time to leave Warren and promote himself. Hatton's a brilliant self-promoter because of his personality and his sense of humour. That's why he has such a huge fan base, his fans identify with him as a person. Calzaghe never had that sort of personality. I just object to people who claim it was because he was scared, which anyone who is at all knowledgeable about him, and who is fair minded, must know to be untrue.

But hey he's retired and deserves the HOF for being the WBO champ for so long.

It's much more than just how long it was, IMO, but I'll leave it at that.

[Dirk Diggler UK]

Lol @ Leave Warren and come to the states. Yes it was that simple. The big US promoters are crying out for unknown Welshmen with no personality

[WESS]

It wasn't like Hopkins turned down the offer in 2002 on the basis of the location, and made a counter-offer for the fight to be in the States - he turned it down over money. (Ostensibly, anyway - some say the real reason was that he felt he was being stitched up by King, but the point is that location wasn't an issue at the time).

At that time, there was much more money to be made by Hopkins or Jones if they fought him in Britain, because of the fact that he was a complete unknown in the States back then. That's why Lacy took the fight in Manchester (and sensibly made sure that the ref and judges were international, not hometown).



I agree up to a point, but he didn't have the personality at that time to leave Warren and promote himself. Hatton's a brilliant self-promoter because of his personality and his sense of humour. That's why he has such a huge fan base, his fans identify with him as a person. Calzaghe never had that sort of personality. I just object to people who claim it was because he was scared, which anyone who is at all knowledgeable about him, and who is fair minded, must know to be untrue.



It's much more than just how long it was, IMO, but I'll leave it at that.

It wasn't like Hopkins turned down the offer in 2002 on the basis of the location, and made a counter-offer for the fight to be in the States - he turned it down over money. (Ostensibly, anyway - some say the real reason was that he felt he was being stitched up by King, but the point is that location wasn't an issue at the time).

Hop backed out on Joe and Joe backed out on Johnson.... money or location either way they didn't get made but I bet a lot of Joe's problems would have been solved if he left Frank and got his "personality" by coming to the states.

I agree up to a point, but he didn't have the personality at that time to leave Warren and promote himself. Hatton's a brilliant self-promoter because of his personality and his sense of humor. That's why he has such a huge fan base, his fans identify with him as a person. Calzaghe never had that sort of personality. I just object to people who claim it was because he was scared, which anyone who is at all knowledgeable about him, and who is fair minded, must know to be untrue.

I don't get all the personality talk though. Mayweather has one of the BEST "personalities" in the game and everyone hates him for it. Not me. I love nothing more than a **** talker. I love the fact he did exactly what he said he would do to Hatton when most said Hatton would KO Mayweather. lol I like Hatton though. I give him a lot of respect. I don't know what was wrong with him in the Pac fight. I knew he would get DESTROYED just not that soon that easy.

It's more than just how long it was, IMO, but I'll leave it at that.

As far as my opinion of Joe, no one on here can change my mind. lol It is what it is in black in white. Its not hard to see. I know what it is. He will go into the HOF for being a WBO SMW champ for 10 years. But no hate I understand you like the guy. Its cool. He is one of the BEST British fighters. Which he deserves. But if he wanted to make a point he wouls have fought Hop again (just as everyone is wanting Cotto to fight Mosley again). He should have fought Dawson instead of Jones (I didnt want that to happen because I like Jones and I understand it was a money fight). Joe wasnt trying to prove anything. He got LUCKY IMO with a SD win over Hop and didnt want to risk his "0" with a rematch or with a Dawson fight or with a Johnson fight. I would take my hat off to him if he would have gave Hop a rematch EVEN if he didnt win it. but o well..... It is what it is.....

At the end of the day I knew Hatton would be beat by the best BUT I sure as hell resepect the guy a hell of a lot more. He's still young enough to fight on. WE NEED TO GET HIM IN THE RING WITH JUDAH!!!!! Big name, could sell in Hatton's back yard. I'm game for a fight like that. I would pay to see it too! Anyway no hate my man. no hate!

[WESS]

Lol @ Leave Warren and come to the states. Yes it was that simple. The big US promoters are crying out for unknown Welshmen with no personality

I think he would have done well for himself. Its not like he was a child. Your making him out like a little boy leaving his home for the first time in a big old mean world...

I think he should have teamed up with the Prince. What better person to talk to than him.....