The definitive poll: Who's higher on the ATG list--Calzaghe or Hopkins?

[DiegoFuego]

A 43 year old Hopkins dropped and almost beat a prime Calzaghe. What more do you want? There is no way on earth anyone can claim Calzaghe is on Hopkins' level

[DiegoFuego]

Uh no offense: but i could be that he's ****ING 43 years old. I mean could that possibly be it? NAH.

Okay Mercado 1.
Taylor 1. He didn't win the fight but nearly stopped him and had him out on his feet several times. Again he was very old and not active enough. Sense a theme here?

Bernard can dissect a fighter in many ways. I keep hearing about this Calzaghe tactics adjustment from his biggest fans but I have yet to see it. What Calzaghe has is heart in the ring, he does dig down when he is knocked down and come back. Credit to him for that. But it's not some huge tactical IQ thing.

Watch the fight and score it again. Bernard almost completely neutralized Calzaghe's offense. He was given tons of "points" for hitting: air, the shoulders, the elbows, the back of the neck, the back, back of the head, the gloves and the arms. It's hilarious the compubox goofing in that fight.

Only thing that fight showed me was that when OLD Bernard is pressured he doesn't have enough physically to come back and win the fight the way he knows how to. But guess what? I knew this a few years back when he lost to Taylor twice.

I'm one of the biggest Taylor supporters on this board and I will admit to hating Bernard Hopkins with a passion, but I completely agree that a big part of Taylor only winning those fights was because Hopkins was old and couldn't keep up with him. Guys like Taylor and Calzaghe that made Hopkins work could outhustle him, but plodders like Tarver and Pavlik never had a prayer, even against an old Hopkins. I don't know why I thought Tarver or Pavlik could win those fights.

[KingTito]

Bernard...........

[bsrizpac]

Im not overlooking these guys. I rated eubank as very good and tough to beat even if he was at the tail end of his career. The other guys you mention were good fighters but they were not elite fighters. Unfortunately for joe, lots of guys could have and have beaten them, which makes it difficult to rate joe at that time, simply because he was not doing something really special in beating them, just doing a good job no doubt.

But the SMW division at the time was not that deep and joe fought probably every contenter apart from ottke and if you believe warren they tried hard to make an ottke calzaghe fight but both wanted the fight at home, correct me if im wrong here? Even with a guarantted big purse ottke wouldnt bite.

I think joe has great skills but if your looking for wins against top quality in their prime fighters lets have a look. I mentioned kessler, if he ever gets moving again time will tell if he fits the bill, hopkins was a good win and even though he was 40 something he was still very dangerous (ask pavlik), but at that age he is past his best. I also realise that joe is no spring chicken and in his late 30's you would think he is also past his best. So that leaves lacy and after the beating joe gave him and his injuries he is now labelled as over rated, rjj was definitely over the hill and half way down but joe did a good job.

So at the end of the day joe did a very good job in what he did but another fight or two would have been good

The excuses for Joe are out of control

[2120]

Both calzaghe and hops respective middleweight and super middleweight reign included pretty soft opposition. Both them started to get recognition at the end of reign.

There is not a man on hopkins resume that he beat that I do not think calzaghe could not beat and vice verse.

Calzaghe does have a win over hopkins but that was an older hopkins and calzaghe was closer to his prime.

Calzaghe style would have given a prime hopkins promblems because he is not as clever as his now back then. A prime hopkins would have given calzaghe problems as well because of his activity, accuracy, and power.

I guess if i had to pick it would be hopkins. He has more names on his resume than calzaghe and even thou he did not win all them he was pretty close. Plus to me a fighter gets more credit for actually fighting the fights and losing than not taking on those fights at all.

It might not be calzaghe fault that he was not able to get the types of fights hopkins got but beating the version of Jones jr he beat is the equivalent of oscar beating chavez. It proves nothing except a prime fighter beats an old fighter.

I have no problem with someone having calzaghe higher but I have hopkins higher

[Patheticfraud?]

Calslappy is not on Hopkins level as a fighter. He has nowhere near the level of intestinal fortitude that Hopkins has. Hopkins is a piece of iron, Calslappy is a cheese danish.

[Smash]

The excuses for Joe are out of control

The only thing out of control is you, im beginning to think there must be a hidden reason you dont like calzaghe. What i said was reasonable, point out the excuses in it for me please

[bsrizpac]

Im not overlooking these guys. I rated eubank as very good and tough to beat even if he was at the tail end of his career. The other guys you mention were good fighters but they were not elite fighters. Unfortunately for joe, lots of guys could have and have beaten them, which makes it difficult to rate joe at that time, simply because he was not doing something really special in beating them, just doing a good job no doubt.

But the SMW division at the time was not that deep and joe fought probably every contenter apart from ottke and if you believe warren they tried hard to make an ottke calzaghe fight but both wanted the fight at home, correct me if im wrong here? Even with a guarantted big purse ottke wouldnt bite.

I think joe has great skills but if your looking for wins against top quality in their prime fighters lets have a look. I mentioned kessler, if he ever gets moving again time will tell if he fits the bill, hopkins was a good win and even though he was 40 something he was still very dangerous (ask pavlik), but at that age he is past his best. I also realise that joe is no spring chicken and in his late 30's you would think he is also past his best. So that leaves lacy and after the beating joe gave him and his injuries he is now labelled as over rated, rjj was definitely over the hill and half way down but joe did a good job.

So at the end of the day joe did a very good job in what he did but another fight or two would have been good

The bolded are excuses for peoples age or his lack of fighting anyone worth a ****. At least you didn't try to make RJJ seem prime, so that was nice of you.

[Iceta]

Both calzaghe and hops respective middleweight and super middleweight reign included pretty soft opposition. Both them started to get recognition at the end of reign.

There is not a man on hopkins resume that he beat that I do not think calzaghe could not beat and vice verse.

Calzaghe does have a win over hopkins but that was an older hopkins and calzaghe was closer to his prime.

Calzaghe style would have given a prime hopkins promblems because he is not as clever as his now back then. A prime hopkins would have given calzaghe problems as well because of his activity, accuracy, and power.

I guess if i had to pick it would be hopkins. He has more names on his resume than calzaghe and even thou he did not win all them he was pretty close. Plus to me a fighter gets more credit for actually fighting the fights and losing than not taking on those fights at all.

It might not be calzaghe fault that he was not able to get the types of fights hopkins got but beating the version of Jones jr he beat is the equivalent of oscar beating chavez. It proves nothing except a prime fighter beats an old fighter.

I have no problem with someone having calzaghe higher but I have hopkins higher

I'll take Antwun Echols, Glen Johnson, Tito Trinidad, and John David Jackson anyday over Tocker Pudwill, Mario Viet, Charles Brewer, and Branco Sobat.

[Dirk Diggler UK]

Only the biggest Joe boyfriends like Dirk think that Joe wouldn't get destroyed by a Prime Jones.

Still talking about me.....lol