Teddy says Pernell is higher than Manny on the All Time list...

[dde91]

p4p Pacquiao is a better ATG.

COme one. 4 lineal titles in 4 different weight classes.. Who else done that?? Whitaker and De La HOya couldn't even do that

[Pullcounter]

What do you all think?

Who's accomplishments are better and warrant a higher ranking on the ATG list?

Discuss.

to be fair to pac, I don't think floyd, mosley, dlh, or other greats of today except maybe for hopkins has a higher ranking than sweet pea

[crold1]

p4p Pacquiao is a better ATG.

COme one. 4 lineal titles in 4 different weight classes.. Who else done that?? Whitaker and De La HOya couldn't even do that

But chance comes into play. Pea didn't have a chance at 40 because Chavez didn't sign until he was already headed for McGirt. He didn't get it at 54 BUT Vasquez was arguably the top fighter in class at that moment as Terry Norris was figuring out how not to blast Luis Santana on the deck.

It's a GREAT accomplishment Manny just pulled off, but staying atop two of the historically best weight classes in the sport is also notable. Manny has been great at winning titles but not much of a champion. Pea was a great and then good champ at two of the four classes he won belts in.

[crold1]

to be fair to pac, I don't think floyd, mosley, dlh, or other greats of today except maybe for hopkins has a higher ranking than sweet pea

Pea trumps Hopkins, slightly, too on raw best wins. Pea was the only fighter since Duran and Leonard to make a real case as a top 20 ATG. Pac is the latest.

[QUISQUEYA]

I got Whitaker right now as well. Whitaker had more skill, & his resume is very solid. Dominated lightweight for awhile. Probably a top 3 defensive fighter all time in anyone's book. The way he dominated JCC was telling.

Yeah. I got Pea higher than both Manny and Floyd.

Floyd and Manny are close in all-time status, and I have no quarrel with whoever has one over the other. Whoever wins the Pac-Floyd matchup will end up with the higher ATG status. The manner in which he wins will determin exactly how high he moves up.

[QUISQUEYA]

p4p Pacquiao is a better ATG.

COme one. 4 lineal titles in 4 different weight classes.. Who else done that?? Whitaker and De La HOya couldn't even do that

dd,

What do you give more credit to:

Moving up in weight and collecting multiple belts
-or-
Dominating one weight class for a long time

[crold1]

dd,

What do you give more credit to:

Moving up in weight and collecting multiple belts
-or-
Dominating one weight class for a long time

Or can we give credit to the guy who did both?

[TheSurgeonMDMPH]

Okay and this is coming from someone who thinks Pac has the foes and chances to move past Pea....

There's more to accomplishment than title wins.

Pernell accelerated much faster than Manny, fighting guys like Roger May and Layne before he was 15 fights in. Manny won the Fly title, but he did it as a raw talent. No one would have picked that Manny to becoem what he has.

Ramirez and Haugen were the equal if not better of Pac's first two title win foes (Sasakul and Ledwaba). Pernell cleaned out Lightweight, beat an ATG Jr. Lightweight in Nelson, and established himself as one of the five to ten best ever at 135.

Pac hasn't earned a top ten spot in any weight class yet.

Pea then went on to beat McGirt and Chavez, both P4P top guys in three outstanding performances and had a multi-defense reign at Welter lasting four years. Chavez was a still undefeated ATG in his own right. Only the the first McGirt fight was close of the three noted and he aced Rivera in their return as well. Before the first McGirt fight, he may have legitimately lost four-five rounds his whole career. Not fights; rounds...and against serious opp.

Then, past 30, he goes up to 54 and beats Vasquez about 10-2 after Vasquez defended ten times with wins over Castillejo and Winky.

Then, with his reflexes going, and without a great punch, he finds one anyways to overcome Hurtado and then makes a fool out of a much younger Oscar with nothing more than a jab and head movement.

Then, at 35, he manages to compete with a prime Tito, enduring a broken jaw for the first clear loss of a 15-year career.

Pea may well have been the best fighter in the world for a full eight years and was the best defensive fighter since at least Locche.

Hard to argue against this post! Good shyt! Should we even be mentioning pacq in the same sentence as?

Pernell Whitaker. Come on guys! For all who are anti-pbf sure are doing him a huge favor by hyping pacq this high. pacq is good no doubt about that, but he is far from great.

[QUISQUEYA]

Or can we give credit to the guy who did both?

Which guy are you referring to? Pac?

I dunno. I view Pac's career accomplishment much more as his ability to successfully ascend through the weight classes than i do him holding down any division for a substantial time.

Which division do you feel Pac king'd? 130 was prolly his most dominant division, but he fought 7 or 8 fights and 3 of those were Erik.

[TheSurgeonMDMPH]

Or can we give credit to the guy who did both?

Head to Head at LW, who takes it?