Reason why Pacquiao would not beat JMM on a 3rd fight

[shadeyfizzle]

Please watch the fight and take your pacman's shirt when doing so.. It is funny because, ovbiously, most of the guys who think MP landed more punches are phillipines.. Just look at the punchmeter or whatever that hbo punch counting thing calls.. marquez landed more on both fights, the comentators even said it, and they love pacman..

If you're going to go off of punches landed...then obviously you're not aware that compubox works on a round by round basis. While Marquez may have landed more total punches....Compubox had Pacquiao winning more rounds than Marquez in that 2nd fight so your point is moot.

And you have yet to prove your argument that Marquez was effective in the 2nd fight counterpunching. What i saw was that he was most effective when he was on the offensive.

[Obusv477]

LOL...this is the most pathetic excuse I've ever heard. The "math" is in one fight he was fighting David "cement feet" Diaz and not a JMM...first ballot hall of famer.
Anyone can look like Muhammad Ali against David Diaz. **** even a washed up Morales beat Diaz in his hometown.

pathetic?....draw your own conclusions from what is out there. Look at ther pics, look at there fight weights. Far be it from to tell you what you see, but what I see is a gaunt listless cheeks-sunken Pac at the JMM weigh-in, and as recently as last weekend...a lively laughing bouncn pac at the Diaz/Hoya/hatton weigh-ins. Deny all u want... personally if I naturally weighed 146-148, I wouldn't want to cut close to 20 lbs in one day and expect to perform at my best the next day.

[koboy]

Just look at the punchmeter or whatever that hbo punch counting thing calls.. marquez landed more on both fights

As you are aware, it's not who lands the most punches throughout the whole fight but who scores the most points in a 10-9 scoring system that determines the winner of fights that last the full 12 rounds.

The difference in that fight was the 10-8 round that Pac won in the 3rd. Who cares how many total punches you land, if you didn't get the most points throughout the whole fight.

Round 8 and Round 3 are perfect examples of the complexity of the 10-9 scoring system and how it determines the winner of most fights that go the distance.

JMM dominated Manny in the 8th but only got a 10-9 round, while Manny and JMM were even, arguably, during the 3rd until the KD, which gave Manny a 10-8 round, which ultimately was the difference in the fight.

Compubox are for statisticians and fans and is not official, therefore has no bearing in the official scorecard. It is also subjective and prone to human error, as is always the case for sports were judges or observers are involved. It doesn't take into account the force of the punches, ring generalship and external forces like cuts and injuries.

[shadeyfizzle]

as you can see what he did to hatton while he went on the offensive. he has progressed. he may want to rethink game plan next time around. i have nothing against marquez but his fans.... marquez is a great fighter but i hate hearing excuses. marquez does have a chance but as pacquiao has progressed into an ATG, beast, boxing god, p4pking. the smaller the chances and game plans must be outright something special.....though pacquiao can get hurt and hit. he has yet to hit the canvas in some time.

I'm aware of that. I am no Marquez fan...just simply pointing out to the threadstarter the flaws in his argument. I say Pacquiao knocks out Marquez in 3 if they ever fought again and sends him into retirement. Even if Marquez were to upset Mayweather.

I'm simply saying if Marquez were to have success against Pacquiao it sure as hell isnt going to be with counterpunching because Pacquiao has developed himself into just as good if not better counterpuncher as Marquez. and I saw Pacquiao landing more counters than Marquez in that 2nd fight.

2 of the 3 knockdowns Pacquiao scored against Hatton were counters...so Marquez is not going to want to go with that strategy the threadstarter suggested either.

[m00ks]

It's really amazing to see when you disect the videos. One thing's for sure, Marquez has great timing.

Pac's main combination attack starts off with a jab, straight left hand and a right hook/uppercut hybrid. Notice how JMM waits for Pac's third punch before coming back with his own. Usually against everyone elese, it's the right hand that lands even if the left misses because opponents aren't expecting a third punch. Either that or the left lands first. Marquez, being on the recieving end of this combination time and time again knows this and pretty much times it perfectly. That's why you'll see Pac adjust and throws a jab-jab-left from time to time to break the pattern, in which the left would land flush. I don't think his left hand lead is as effective as Marquez counters in bunches. He doesn't seem to feel comfortable throwing it which might explain why he disposes of it even though it's a very effectve weapon against conventional fighters.

Now, since the third fight with Morales, Pac has been perfecting his own counterpunching. He's got the right hook counter down pat and the counter 1-2-3 is coming along. Still a little green but it's landing more and you can see it in the Hatton fight in the first round. The timing is getting there. Nonetheless, it just rounds him more as a fighter, being able to lead and counterpunch when called upon.

And this is why I think he'll be more convincing in the third fight. While Marquez is showing decline as evidenced of getting hit often and clean, Pac's showing nothing but improvement in terms of timing, power and arsenal. Marquez isn't getting any younger in age nor ringwear while Pac is currently in his absolute prime.

As for the previous reults, people need to let it go. Both fights were close. There was never any robbery nor schooling by either fighter. An argument can be made for the judge in the first fight who readily admitted a scoring error he made, but still it would have been a SD or MD for Pac and the fight remains close. It doesn't matter if half the media though Marquez won the 2nd by hairline since the decision was NOT contraversial and everyone who had it for Marquez did not contest the decision (save for the fans). They found it fair, not a robbery so everyone should just drop it. Pac is 1-0-1 and JMM is 0-1-1 vs each other and that's pretty much the bottom line.

Can JMM win in a third fight? Yes but the intangibales are against him. He's got a fight against Mayweather which is a bout that may take his last legs away from him. He could very well be 37 by the time a third fight ensues and age will take away your reflexes and speed. Without those attributes his chances of beating Pacquiao look very bleak.

[nj_evoixgsr]

for those who debate the 2nd fight.

i want you to look at facts before you cry even more...

with the knockdown that round alone scores 10-8 in favor of pac

what does that mean from there on out? jmm must win 8 of 12 rounds to WIN 7 of 12 to draw.

not being biased i counted 6 for 6 with the knockdown being the deciding factor.

what we have to remember is if the round was extremely close it's judges opinion who they gave that round too.

i say that 2nd fight would have been a draw if the knockdown wasn't there.



don't say jmm won without a reason to speak your opinion why he won. or your just saying it to say it.

i forget the exact rounds on who won what in my opinion but i remember 6 rounds a piece and only deciding factor why he won was the knockdown.





trilogy MUST have the 3 knockdown rule in effect to make sure NO CONTROVERSY after the fight.

[Ukuzu]

It's really amazing to see when you disect the videos. One thing's for sure, Marquez has great timing.

Pac's main combination attack starts off with a jab, straight left hand and a right hook/uppercut hybrid. Notice how JMM waits for Pac's third punch before coming back with his own. Usually against everyone elese, it's the right hand that lands even if the left misses because opponents aren't expecting a third punch. Either that or the left lands first. Marquez, being on the recieving end of this combination time and time again knows this and pretty much times it perfectly. That's why you'll see Pac adjust and throws a jab-jab-left from time to time to break the pattern, in which the left would land flush. I don't think his left hand lead is as effective as Marquez counters in bunches. He doesn't seem to feel comfortable throwing it which might explain why he disposes of it even though it's a very effectve weapon against conventional fighters.

Now, since the third fight with Morales, Pac has been perfecting his own counterpunching. He's got the right hook counter down pat and the counter 1-2-3 is coming along. Still a little green but it's landing more and you can see it in the Hatton fight in the first round. The timing is getting there. Nonetheless, it just rounds him more as a fighter, being able to lead and counterpunch when called upon.

And this is why I think he'll be more convincing in the third fight. While Marquez is showing decline as evidenced of getting hit often and clean, Pac's showing nothing but improvement in terms of timing, power and arsenal. Marquez isn't getting any younger in age nor ringwear while Pac is currently in his absolute prime.

As for the previous reults, people need to let it go. Both fights were close. There was never any robbery nor schooling by either fighter. An argument can be made for the judge in the first fight who readily admitted a scoring error he made, but still it would have been a SD or MD for Pac and the fight remains close. It doesn't matter if half the media though Marquez won the 2nd by hairline since the decision was NOT contraversial and everyone who had it for Marquez did not contest the decision (save for the fans). They found it fair, not a robbery so everyone should just drop it. Pac is 1-0-1 and JMM is 0-1-1 vs each other and that's pretty much the bottom line.

Can JMM win in a third fight? Yes but the intangibales are against him. He's got a fight against Mayweather which is a bout that may take his last legs away from him. He could very well be 37 by the time a third fight ensues and age will take away your reflexes and speed. Without those attributes his chances of beating Pacquiao look very bleak.

Excellent post! Pacquiao will always have the most difficult time with boxers like Marquez but he's still improving and his eagerness to improve himself will eventually give him the edge to beat Marquez more convincingly if they meet for the third fight. Marquez is a great fighter though and he can make adjustments in the ring as he has shown many times before, but like you said he'll probably hit a wall with regards to improvement compared to Pacquiao specifically because of his age.

[DUnknown1]

not to mention jmm already lost to pac 2x.

Can you say anything else but this statement. I mean seriously each time they talk about Marquez and Pac you always post the same statement.

[JACK D. RIPPER]

Can you say anything else but this statement. I mean seriously each time they talk about Marquez and Pac you always post the same statement.

Dont bother with this guy. He always posts the same smug **** and contributes nothing to the forum.
Its best to keep him on IGNORE.

[HendrixLove]

Dont bother with this guy. He always posts the same smug **** and contributes nothing to the forum.
Its best to keep him on IGNORE.

I also agree, that Pull guy is a ******. ****, he's got puppet ***** for his AV, the guy is blind.