Manny Pacquiao is not top 10-30 all time...

[Vasyl’s dad]

I was referring to Whitaker. But I could see why you don't want go there.

I've yet to hear a tangible reason why Manny Pacquiao wouldn't be a top 10 fighter should he beat Floyd. Who knows, maybe he loses to Cotto right after and then you have a debate. But as it stands today, it would be awfully difficult to argue against it. Using Ray Leonard to counter actually hurts your debate; attempting to lesson the importance of weight classes drains it of credibility.

Dazed, these guys don't realize they're digging themselves into deeper and deeper holes they can't climb out of.


Imagine if Marquez gives Floyd a decent scrap and Floyd retires.

This place would be void of Mayweather stans for a long time. As it is, people are already starting to see what a joke the last half of his career has been.

[-EX-]

I was referring to Whitaker. But I could see why you don't want go there.

I've yet to hear a tangible reason why Manny Pacquiao wouldn't be a top 10 fighter should he beat Floyd. Who knows, maybe he loses to Cotto right after and then you have a debate. But as it stands today, it would be awfully difficult to argue against it. Using Ray Leonard to counter actually hurts your debate; attempting to lesson the importance of weight classes drains it of credibility.

Whitaker would be a difficult argument. Pacquiao isn't. Fine take away Sugar Ray. I gave u a bunch of other names. Hearns anyone?

[-EX-]

Dazed, these guys don't realize they're digging themselves into deeper and deeper holes they can't climb out of.


Imagine if Marquez gives Floyd a decent scrap and Floyd retires.

This place would be void of Mayweather stans for a long time. As it is, people are already starting to see what a joke the last half of his career has been.

Margarito doesn't have any fans...and this has to do with Pacquiao not belonging in the top 30 all time...

[IMDAZED]

Dazed, these guys don't realize they're digging themselves into deeper and deeper holes they can't climb out of.


Imagine if Marquez gives Floyd a decent scrap and Floyd retires.

This place would be void of Mayweather stans for a long time. As it is, people are already starting to see what a joke the last half of his career has been.

Yeah, I agree that what's good for the goose is good for the gander. And while I love Floyd, I wasn't pleased with how he ended his career the last time. I'm hoping he redeems himself this time--win or lose. Fight fan first, fan of the fighter second.

But the threadstarter has exposed cracks in his argument. I'm appalled at how Whitaker's resume can be dismissed as not being very good before conceding that it's great and may or may not be top 20. Perhaps he's making the same mistake with Pacquiao's (given he beats Floyd)?

[Ido]

The man is a great fighter and has the opportunity to be the greatest of his decade but that doesn't place him that high on the all time list. For samples I looked at ESPN's list.

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Joe Louis
5. Willie Pep
6. Roberto Duran
7. Benny Leonard
8. Jack Johnson
9. Jack Dempsey
10. Sam Langford
11. Joe Gans
12. Sugar Ray Leonard
13. Harry Greb
14. Rocky Marciano
15. Jimmy Wilde
16. Gene Tunney
17. Mickey Walker
19. Stanley Ketchel
20. George Foreman
21. Tony Canzoneri
22. Barney Ross
23. Jimmy McLarnin
24. Julio Cesar Chavez
25. Marcel Cerdan
26. Joe Frazier
27. Ezzard Charles
18. Archie Moore
28. Jake LaMotta
29. Sandy Saddler
30. Terry McGovern

I know some don't like this list but who on here that is notable to you outside of maybe Chavez(and he even has a billion wins) would you put Pacquiao ahead of?

And please, this thread has nothing to do with Mayweather cuz he aint in the top 30 either.

Its an old list. I would think, we have to wait after Manny retires from the sport to weed out some factors and determine where he ranks as an All Time Greatest.

[-EX-]

Whitaker fought better opponents than Pacquiao....please...

[IMDAZED]

Whitaker would be a difficult argument. Pacquiao isn't. Fine take away Sugar Ray. I gave u a bunch of other names. Hearns anyone?

Stop throwing out names and start defending the ones already there. Let's start with Larry Holmes. Given a Pac win over Floyd, how would Larry trump that?

[Vasyl’s dad]

Margarito doesn't have any fans...and this has to do with Pacquiao not belonging in the top 30 all time...

In 2005-2008,

Floyd was deathly afraid of Margarito. So afraid that he retired because he knew the public would call for him to face either him or Cotto, depending on who won their fight.


Deal with it. Floyd ducked him alongside the rest of the welterweight division that includes Cotto, Mosley, Clottey and at one point Williams.

Cotto has faced Tony, Shane and will be going heads up with Clottey.
Mosley fought Cotto, Margarito, and a host of other names, some of who he lost to.
Clottey has fought Margarito, has Cotto lined up and was willing to fight Paul.
Paul fought Tony and nobody else has really lined up to face him.

Floyd has fought none of these guys even though he was the divisions lineal champion.


That is why Manny is ahead of Floyd in the all time rankings.

Pacquiao takes on the challenge, Floyd makes excuses to avoid it.

[Ido]

In 2005-2008,

Floyd was deathly afraid of Margarito. So afraid that he retired because he knew the public would call for him to face either him or Cotto, depending on who won their fight.


Deal with it. Floyd ducked him alongside the rest of the welterweight division that includes Cotto, Mosley, Clottey and at one point Williams.

Cotto has faced Tony, Shane and will be going heads up with Clottey.
Mosley fought Cotto, Margarito, and a host of other names, some of who he lost to.
Clottey has fought Margarito, has Cotto lined up and was willing to fight Paul.
Paul fought Tony and nobody else has really lined up to face him.

Floyd has fought none of these guys even though he was the divisions lineal champion.


That is why Manny is ahead of Floyd in the all time rankings.

Pacquiao takes on the challenge, Floyd makes excuses to avoid it.

Thread/END.

[Vasyl’s dad]

Yeah, I agree that what's good for the goose is good for the gander. And while I love Floyd, I wasn't pleased with how he ended his career the last time. I'm hoping he redeems himself this time--win or lose. Fight fan first, fan of the fighter second.

But the threadstarter has exposed cracks in his argument. I'm appalled at how Whitaker's resume can be dismissed as not being very good before conceding that it's great and may or may not be top 20. Perhaps he's making the same mistake with Pacquiao's (given he beats Floyd)?

You have to remember, the dude is only 18 and most likely started watching the sport because of Floyd. You remember how impressionable we can be at such a young age. I was a teen when Tyson was wrecking **** up and thought he was unbeatable and the greatest ever. For a long time, I didn't even count the loss to Douglas because I made excuses for Mike.

Reality sets in and takes over though.