How does beating a fighter who is moving up a bad win for some?

[Sin City]

I've been saying it for years : Fight fans make too big a deal out of a few extra pounds.

I mostly see people ****ting on more recent fighters who've done it.

But if you're going to **** on those guys, you need to **** on all the other guys who've done it too.

By their standards, Hagler was a ***** for not fighting Tommy at 147, Holyfield was a ***** for not dropping to 175 for Moorer, Foreman was a ***** for not fighting Holyfield at 180, Wlad is a ***** for not fighitng Haye at 180, the list goes on and on.

It's all bull****.

It would be cool if it was just one or two opponents but Hopkins does this with almost EVERYBODY.. he has only fought one guy that was bigger than him too. Hagler is one of my favorites and he stuck in one division but he still fought dudes that where bigger then him.. I don't recall him ever having a bunch of dudes gain large amounts of weight just to fight him, he fought dudes his own size. Why doesn't Bernard fight dudes that are actually in his weight class like Chad Dawson? He should give dude the chance..

[AztecWanker]

I've been saying it for years : Fight fans make too big a deal out of a few extra pounds.

I mostly see people ****ting on more recent fighters who've done it.

But if you're going to **** on those guys, you need to **** on all the other guys who've done it too.

By their standards, Hagler was a ***** for not fighting Tommy at 147, Holyfield was a ***** for not dropping to 175 for Moorer, Foreman was a ***** for not fighting Holyfield at 180, Wlad is a ***** for not fighitng Haye at 180, the list goes on and on.

It's all bull****.

Exactly.

I mean... I think it's legit sometimes.

Trinidad - Not legit... he ****ing rolled Joppy and proved that he was a force at 160.

Wright - Legit... he was unproven at 170, and didn't look as sharp as before (or even as sharp as he was against Williams last night)... still a really good win though, weight or not.

Pavlik - Legit... unproven at 170, and looked flat as ****. The domination of the win was something that still made it a good win.

Oscar De La Hoya - Legit... Literally 0 reason that ODLH was at middleweight. He looked terrible and only had a robbery win over Sturm at that weight.

It depends on how that boxer does in that weight for the rest of his career.

I see what you mean but I'ma have to disagree about Pavlik. It was Bernard's style and handspeed that gave Kelly problems, not the actual weight, IMO at least. And, Oscar didn't belong in the ring against Hopkins in the first place.

[ßringer]

Kelly looked a bit like a **** sandwich at 166 for the rematch with Taylor.

Call me nuts, but ol' limited iron worker Pavlik is not going to do **** outside of 160.

Kelly looked bad because Jermain made him look bad, by boxing and sticking to his gameplan.

He was making Kelly look bad in the first fight as well until he punched his ass out and let Pavlik take control.

As for what he'll do outside of 160, time will tell. He won't be at 160 for more than another 2 years IMO. I see him going to 168 or 175 eventually.

[Fox McCloud]

It would be cool if it was just one or two opponents but Hopkins does this with almost EVERYBODY.. he has only fought one guy that was bigger than him too. Hagler is one of my favorites and he stuck in one division but he still fought dudes that where bigger then him.. I don't recall him ever having a bunch of dudes gain large amounts of weight just to fight him, he fought dudes his own size. Why doesn't Bernard fight dudes that are actually in his weight class like Chad Dawson? He should give dude the chance..

To be fair... at MW, he did clean the divison out, thoroughly, hence his having all 5 real belts at that weight... At that point, who does he fight? People coming up.

At LHW, the players were Tarver, who he beat, and Johnson, who won 0 seconds of the fight the first time they fought.

Not fighting Dawson does irk me though... mostly because I think he would beat him, and he is wasting a hell of an opportunity by not taking this fight.

Exactly.



I see what you mean but I'ma have to disagree about Pavlik. It was Bernard's style and handspeed that gave Kelly problems, not the actual weight, IMO at least. And, Oscar didn't belong in the ring against Hopkins in the first place.

I guess, honestly, the best we can give Kelly is unproven at that weight, rather than doesn't belong... he will have to prove something in the future in order to justify the win... right now, it's a question mark at best.

[ßringer]

It would be cool if it was just one or two opponents but Hopkins does this with almost EVERYBODY.. he has only fought one guy that was bigger than him too. Hagler is one of my favorites and he stuck in one division but he still fought dudes that where bigger then him.. I don't recall him ever having a bunch of dudes gain large amounts of weight just to fight him, he fought dudes his own size. Why doesn't Bernard fight dudes that are actually in his weight class like Chad Dawson? He should give dude the chance..

John Mugabi was a Jr. Middleweight

Sugar Ray Leonard was a Welterweight.

Tommy Hearns was a Welterweight.

Roberto Duran was a blown up Lightweight.

Marcos Geraldo was a Jr. Middleweight.

[Mr. Fantastic]

Agreed

Some people (such as Chico79 or whatever he calls himself) are just idiots who hate Bernard and should not be taken seriously.

Other people who spout that **** about Hopkins being bigger than everyone (Tunney) are just morons with an obvious agenda against Hopkins and others of his race.

See you had to go there with the name calling. Just cause I don't agree with your thoughts, doesn't make me an idiot.

[Sin City]

To be fair... at MW, he did clean the divison out, thoroughly, hence his having all 5 real belts at that weight... At that point, who does he fight? People coming up.

At LHW, the players were Tarver, who he beat, and Johnson, who won 0 seconds of the fight the first time they fought.

Not fighting Dawson does irk me though... mostly because I think he would beat him, and he is wasting a hell of an opportunity by not taking this fight.



I guess, honestly, the best we can give Kelly is unproven at that weight, rather than doesn't belong... he will have to prove something in the future in order to justify the win... right now, it's a question mark at best.

when you have done all that you can do in a division you just don't sit around and wait for welterweights to move up.. you move up yourself and fight the top dudes in the next division. there was Jeff Lacey, Joe Calzaghe, Roy Jones Jr. up there for him to fight.

[Fox McCloud]

John Mugabi was a Jr. Middleweight

Sugar Ray Leonard was a Welterweight.

Tommy Hearns was a Welterweight.

Roberto Duran was a blown up Lightweight.

Marcos Geraldo was a Jr. Middleweight.

I would think someone would pick someone other than Marvin Hagler as a beacon of fighting people their own size...

He was, by far, the biggest of the fab 4, and his best wins were against a lightweight and a welterweight.

[Fox McCloud]

when you have done all that you can do in a division you just don't sit around and wait for welterweights to move up.. you move up yourself and fight the top dudes in the next division. there was Jeff Lacey, Joe Calzaghe, Roy Jones Jr. up there for him to fight.

Idk, I don't think it's incumbent on someone to move up if they are not comfortable doing so...

That was pretty much the ruination of a lot of Mosley's career, when he moved up way too many weight divisions.

[ßringer]

I would think someone would pick someone other than Marvin Hagler as a beacon of fighting people their own size...

He was, by far, the biggest of the fab 4, and his best wins were against a lightweight and a welterweight.

Vic hates Hopkins. He won't let Hagler's record of fighting little men deter him.