Thrilla in Manila on HBO

[Horus]

No wonder everybody hates you, you repetitive ****.

Are you on "auto pilot" or some ****? You've been saying the same **** for the last 4 pages.

Originally you ask why Ali is not being adored in this HBO Documentary like he is in every other thing he's been in, we give you the answers, and you keep coming with this repetitive bull****.

Go back to school and learn how to properly debate and discuss with people.

1st. If you anything about me, you will know that write 2 make a point.

2nd. My beef is why didnt HBO for the majority of this documentary provide context into why ali played mind games with joe fraizer.

the answer is because he knew it would work and he knew it was good promotion.

None of us in here far as I know, knows ali personally
so we cant say if Ali meant it or not.

but we do know that the only time Ali talk bad about fraizer was before they were about 2 fight..

so what does that tell you...???

but we cant say the same thing about joe

[street bully]

Frazier needs to stop whining Ali is sick old and suffering.

[ßringer]

1st. If you anything about me, you will know that write 2 make a point.

"If you anything about me, you will know that write 2 make a point."

Huh?

2nd. My beef is why didnt HBO for the majority of this documentary provide context into why ali play mind games with joe fraizer.

Because this documentary is the one about Joe Frazier's side of the story. You know, the other guy in the ring with Ali those 3 times?

If you want Ali's story, watch any one of the multiple Ali documentaries that paint him as the model human being.

the answer is because he knew it would work and he knew it was good promotion.

Bull****. You can say he wanted to play mind games with Frazier, and you can say he knew how to get inside of his head.

But you cannot claim that was promotion for their fights, because if you've ever watch a single piece of footage of Ali berating Joe, you would know how serious he was.

It wasn't promotion. Promotion wasn't even an excuse back then. Back then boxing was as popular as it's ever been, it was the "golden era", and people were watching it all over the world. If "promotion" was such an issue, and everybody needed to "sell" their fights, why was Ali the only one doing it?

Especially when you consider how well recognized he was all over the world at that time. He was Muhammad Ali, people were going to watch him no matter what.

Promotion my ass. He hated Frazier, and took every chance he got to ridicule him as a man, as a fighter, and as an African American in the media. Period.

None of us in here far as I know, knows ali personally
so we cant say if Ali meant it or not.

No, but you can certainly watch his body language and how furious he gets when discussing the issue of Frazier. Ali had no formal acting experience (unless you count that horrible play he did for money when he was broke), and if he really didn't mean what he said, he sure as hell made it look like he did.

but we do know that the only time Ali talk bad about fraizer was before they were about 2 fight..

so what does that tell you...???

but we cant say the same thing about joe

So just because Ali said it before the fights, that makes it all cool, right?

You can label someone a trader to their own race, and call them a nigger all you want, just as long as you say "sorry" after the fight is finished, right?

If Ali had been any other man saying that to Frazier, African Americans would've been wanting his damn head on a stick.

But because Ali was charasmatic, and a figure of his time, people just let it slide and chalked it all up to "promotion". People like you.

[Bhopreign]

"If you anything about me, you will know that write 2 make a point."

Huh?



Because this documentary is the one about Joe Frazier's side of the story. You know, the other guy in the ring with Ali those 3 times?

If you want Ali's story, watch any one of the multiple Ali documentaries that paint him as the model human being.



Bull****. You can say he wanted to play mind games with Frazier, and you can say he knew how to get inside of his head.

But you cannot claim that was promotion for their fights, because if you've ever watch a single piece of footage of Ali berating Joe, you would know how serious he was.

It wasn't promotion. Promotion wasn't even an excuse back then. Back then boxing was as popular as it's ever been, it was the "golden era", and people were watching it all over the world. If "promotion" was such an issue, and everybody needed to "sell" their fights, why was Ali the only one doing it?

Especially when you consider how well recognized he was all over the world at that time. He was Muhammad Ali, people were going to watch him no matter what.

Promotion my ass. He hated Frazier, and took every chance he got to ridicule him as a man, as a fighter, and as an African American in the media. Period.



No, but you can certainly watch his body language and how furious he gets when discussing the issue of Frazier. Ali had no formal acting experience (unless you count that horrible play he did for money when he was broke), and if he really didn't mean what he said, he sure as hell made it look like he did.



So just because Ali said it before the fights, that makes it all cool, right?

You can label someone a trader to their own race, and call them a nigger all you want, just as long as you say "sorry" after the fight is finished, right?

If Ali had been any other man saying that to Frazier, African Americans would've been wanting his damn head on a stick.

But because Ali was charasmatic, and a figure of his time, people just let it slide and chalked it all up to "promotion". People like you.

I've agreed with about everything you've been saying. Ali did whatever it took, he even called it spiritual warfare. He knew that stuff worked and he was willing to do whatever it take and didnt care how it would affect a person, he just wanted to win. Agree that it wasnt promotion too, showing up in people's yards at 2am(Liston), coming to a hotel with a gun(fake) to scare someone, all those things have nothing to do with promotion but rather trying to intimidate and scare someone to get their mind off of the fight, thats taking it way too far, Hopkins, Floyd and no other fighter I can think of takes it that far, it kinda says he felt he needed to do all of that to win, as if he couldnt solely count on his talent alone, I just think he took it too far at times.

[ßringer]

This is going to be my last post in this thread. Truthfully, I could talk about Ali/Frazier all day, and all night, for weeks, without boring of the subject. But my time would be best spent elsewhere.

A couple things I want to touch on real quick before I bow out.

1.) It's been said by many that Ali was a very insecure person, and was intimidated by Frazier's darker skin tone. Some people have said that Ali felt so insecure about his own light skin tone that he felt it necessary to drag down, and belittle Frazier in the public eye, to be accepted by his own community.

I have no idea the validity of that, and I'm not even going to speculate on it. I'm white, and anything I say on the matter anyway would be instantly labelled racist.

2.) Despite the negative things I've said about Ali in this thread, I really do have a fondness for him and he's on my top 10 favorite fighters of all time list, the same list Joe Frazier is on. Ali has done many great things in his life outside the ring which I admire including being an ambassador for his Religion, his tireless efforts promoting peace, and the work he's done with children.

I just see him for who he is/was, rather than who I want him to be, or who people tell me he was. He was a very complicated man (aren't we all?) who did many good things, and many bad things in his life, and he was not all good, or all bad. Despite what his biggest supporters or biggest critics might have to say about that.

3.) I don't think Frazier would still be holding this grudge had it not effected his family the way it did. Had Frazier's family not been threatened so many times by people who believed Ali's words, or had his children not had to grow up being singled out and ridiculed because of Ali's words and actions : I think he'd have a far easier time letting go of this.

Joe's a man, men can handle hurt feelings. But when you start effecting a man's children and his family, that's the type of **** that likely never goes away.

[Horus]

As i re-read through this thread, it has became quite obvious to me that most of you guys have not got into many fights in your life.
Because when you get into a fight the first thing that goes is consideration for the other person feelings, and the second thing that goes your fists..

Listen Boxing is 90% Mental you guys...This is a brutal sport. This **** is not for the weak of mind and the weak of heart.

I defend Ali on this because, it makes a huge difference to me that
every bad thing Ali said About Joe fraizor was always before the fight and not after.

Not just anybody can be a professional fighter and be great at it.
Being a great fighter, requires you to be Mentally superior to your opponent most of the time because at the championship level just being physically gifted is not going to win you every fight.

This is why you hear people say boxing is 90% Mental and 10% Physical

This **** is really Psychological warfare. At it's highest level.



Psychological warfare is an art adopted to defeat the enemy's will to fight. It predominantly aims to win the battle before it starts.


YOU can make the argument that Ali meant those those words, because in how they way he said it...

But if he never Said those words after they fought...

How much did he really mean those words????

Unlike joe frazior who is saying all those **** 40 something years after they fought

I mean got damn, The way I am reading you guys comments, makes me wonder why do you guys even watch the sport of boxing if you dont like violence both mentally and physically.

if you dont realize that 2 people are trying to really **** each other up, Not just Physically but Mentality than you dont understand what boxing is all about.

Once Again:

If you dont want somebody to mentally mind fucck you as well as beat you up dont sign your name on the contract.

Once you sign your name on that Contract, you have now committed yourself into a physical and mental altercation with somebody.
This **** means, your job is to do everything possible to win within the rules.
to win that fight.


This is why I love boxing....It is a Warrior sport, but it is also a thinking mans game.


And for some of you guys....I dont know what to tell you...maybe you should watch tennis where there is no contact at all.


But it makes a huge difference to me that Ali never said those things about joe frazior after they fought...

because if he really meant those words why didnt he say them after he fought frazior when he had every opportunity to gloat and throw it in people faces how joe frazior was a uncle tom and uncle toms never win in life and i just prove it tonight....


but guess what he never did that.
why is that?
if he meant those words...

why didnt he bring it up causally when ever he talked about Joe frazior when they were not fighting each other....

the only thing i every heard ali said about joe frazior when they were not fighting each other...

was that joe frazior was the greatest fighter i ever fought...
why would he say that if he really thought Frazior was a traitor to his race????

it doesnt make sense....

this is why i feel ali didnt mean what he said about joe frazior


And it was apart of his attempt to win the fight before it started

[VaBoriKua 2.0]

This is going to be my last post in this thread. Truthfully, I could talk about Ali/Frazier all day, and all night, for weeks, without boring of the subject. But my time would be best spent elsewhere.

A couple things I want to touch on real quick before I bow out.

1.) It's been said by many that Ali was a very insecure person, and was intimidated by Frazier's darker skin tone. Some people have said that Ali felt so insecure about his own light skin tone that he felt it necessary to drag down, and belittle Frazier in the public eye, to be accepted by his own community.

I have no idea the validity of that, and I'm not even going to speculate on it. I'm white, and anything I say on the matter anyway would be instantly labelled racist.

2.) Despite the negative things I've said about Ali in this thread, I really do have a fondness for him and he's on my top 10 favorite fighters of all time list, the same list Joe Frazier is on. Ali has done many great things in his life outside the ring which I admire including being an ambassador for his Religion, his tireless efforts promoting peace, and the work he's done with children.

I just see him for who he is/was, rather than who I want him to be, or who people tell me he was. He was a very complicated man (aren't we all?) who did many good things, and many bad things in his life, and he was not all good, or all bad. Despite what his biggest supporters or biggest critics might have to say about that.

3.) I don't think Frazier would still be holding this grudge had it not effected his family the way it did. Had Frazier's family not been threatened so many times by people who believed Ali's words, or had his children not had to grow up being singled out and ridiculed because of Ali's words and actions : I think he'd have a far easier time letting go of this.

Joe's a man, men can handle hurt feelings. But when you start effecting a man's children and his family, that's the type of **** that likely never goes away.

yo on the real horus is like a ****ing parrot repeats everything ova and ova and ova and is bias as **** im glad u can see it 2

[gopi11]

After watching the documentary last night, I can safely say Ali won the battle but Joe won the war...