Who deserves more criticism Calzaghe or Mayweather

[lest26]

your poll is ****** as there isnt a selection that say neither or either dont deserve criticism as that is actualy the truth, at least not for what they acheived, all to often ppl on here look at what fighters havent achieved when what they should realy be looking at is what they have, these to have been at the pinnacle of there sports and unlike many others they even remained there

[QUISQUEYA]

There is a large, large gap between B class and ATGs.
.

Well said.

For example (mayweather talk aside), Oscar Delahoya is generally regarded as an "A" opponent during his heyday. But nobody (well, very few) would regard Oscar as an ATG.

You can be "elite" competition without being duran. JMM today is elite. He is nowhere near an ATG.

[Dynamite Kid]

Tell me Shane's resume at LW. Please.

BTW, castillo was smoke by the time he fought hatton. You SHOULD know that.

I will conceed Shane Mosley does not have a particularly "great" resume at LW, but let me ask you who do you think would win, if he fought Castillo?

[Dan...]

Okay lets forget labeling them B class, because your interpretation seems more derogatory than mine. B class by estimation is still very very good its just shy of elite in my context. Its not a cheap shot.

Let say he has not beaten a "elite" fighter. Chico/Corrales are very good fighters, but im sure you will conceed they are not elite fighters.

Im not just talking about ATG fighters. Shane Mosley might not be considered an ATG by some fans, But im sure most would pick him to take Chico, and Corrales out regardless. Different level imo.

"Go back in time and ask any boxing expert if Corrales was B class on the night Mayweather fought him"

Why? that would just tell me how they were overrating his credentials at that particular time, because they knew less about his credentials. i could go back and see where Lacy was rated pre Calzaghe, but what would that prove?

So Corrales is on a level with Lacy now? Wtf. Prime Corrales was a beast. That is the point I am making. He beat top level fighters himself. Just because he got in a few wars and ruined himself which impacted on his later performances does not mean he was not an elite fighter. IMO both Corrales and Castillo were elite fighters in their primes, which is when Mayweather fought them.

[Dynamite Kid]

Well said.

For example (mayweather talk aside), Oscar Delahoya is generally regarded as an "A" opponent during his heyday. But nobody (well, very few) would regard Oscar as an ATG.

You can be "elite" competition without being duran. JMM today is elite. He is nowhere near an ATG.

Agreed, but DLH did not fight Mayweather in his heyday.


That is why i said Shane Mosley. Some people dont consider him an ATG, but almost all say he is elite. Dont try and get away from the truth by interpreting what you want.

[Dynamite Kid]

So Corrales is on a level with Lacy now? Wtf. Prime Corrales was a beast. That is the point I am making. He beat top level fighters himself. Just because he got in a few wars and ruined himself which impacted on his later performances does not mean he was not an elite fighter. IMO both Corrales and Castillo were elite fighters in their primes, which is when Mayweather fought them.

danc1984 i never said that. I think you know what i was getting at, but if i have clarify i will. Point im trying highlight is that going back and taking the opinion of Boxing writer does not always give us the full picture.

Curry was rated as one of, if not the best P4P in the world before Honeyghan beat him, but im sure us as fans knew more about Curry's credentials as fighter after he lost than those sports writers knew about him when he was unbeaten and taking care of the likes of Starling etc.


both Corrales and Castillo were elite fighters in their primes

Well we will have to agree to disagree. I think guys like Mosley/Whitaker,Duran,Chavez would destroy or white wash a guy like Castillo.

[warp1432]

Okay lets forget labeling them B class, because your interpretation seems more derogatory than mine. B class by estimation is still very very good its just shy of elite in my context. Its not a cheap shot.

Let say he has not beaten a "elite" fighter. Chico/Corrales are very good fighters, but im sure you will conceed they are not elite fighters.

Im not just talking about ATG fighters. Shane Mosley might not be considered an ATG by some fans, But im sure most would pick him to take Chico, and Corrales out regardless. Different level imo.

"Go back in time and ask any boxing expert if Corrales was B class on the night Mayweather fought him"

Why? that would just tell me how they were overrating his credentials at that particular time, because they knew less about his credentials. i could go back and see where Lacy was rated pre Calzaghe, but what would that prove?

How people were regarded and who they beat is important for a resume. Corrales at the time had wins over Roberto Garcia and Angel Manfredy. Both were top 130 contenders. Corrales went on later to beat Freitas, Casamayor once, and Castillo once. Very good resume.

Beating a stedy of names who were at the top of the division, makes a great resume, even if some fighters would lose in head to head match ups. Castillo might lose to all time great lightweights, but he had a really damn good reign after Floyd left and a bit before that too.

[Dynamite Kid]

How people were regarded and who they beat is important for a resume. Corrales at the time had wins over Roberto Garcia and Angel Manfredy. Both were top 130 contenders. Corrales went on later to beat Freitas, Casamayor once, and Castillo once. Very good resume.

Beating a stedy of names who were at the top of the division, makes a great resume, even if some fighters would lose in head to head match ups. Castillo might lose to all time great lightweights, but he had a really damn good reign after Floyd left and a bit before that too.

"How people were regarded and who they beat is important for a resume"


Agree....... but that can also be used to gauge how overrated someone is as it can for how underrated they are. I suppose it comes down to interpretation of the individual.


I consider those guys to be about the same type of level and maybe 1 or 2 a slight notch above each other. They are all very very good fighters, but not elite. Its like the 168lbs div now. I see a lot of names, but i dont see a really great fighter in that crop they all look to be on the same type of level.

Its like Eubank and Benn. Both were very very good champions, but i dont consider either to be elite.

My criteria is different. To me a "great" resume is noted when a fighter has defeated elite names.

Castillo might lose to all time great lightweights, but he had a really damn good reign

And that is why i rate him as a very very good fighter with a good resume, but he is just shy of elite imo.

That is just my criteria though.

[QUISQUEYA]

Let say he has not beaten a "elite" fighter. Chico/Corrales are very good fighters, but im sure you will conceed they are not elite fighters.

Corrales lost to HOF-level (or just below) fighters. That's it. He never lost to the type of fighters that beat, say, Barrera or Morales.

[QUISQUEYA]

Agreed, but DLH did not fight Mayweather in his heyday.


That is why i said Shane Mosley. Some people dont consider him an ATG, but almost all say he is elite. Dont try and get away from the truth by interpreting what you want.

Whar effin part of "mayweather talk aside" confused the hell out of you?