Is Floyd's welterweight run comparible to Jones Jr's heavyweight title?

[THE REED]

i find going from MW to HW is a bigger deal than 130-147

[RL_GMA]

Hatton vs. Floyd was two little WW's fighting, it was a bit different to a Mosley vs Margarito in my eyes

the others are good wins (the Zab one especially) but they're not quite Cottos or Mosleys

he can obviously handle himself up there because of his immense skills, but does there get a point where the oppositions' weight/size advantages topping up their skills gets too much?

Yea i think Mosley and Margarito were just maybe bigger sized WWs, but I don't think it's something where Floyd has a big disadvantage.

The argument I can't seem to understand is people complaining that Floyd would fight Pac and JMM and would get no credit because they're "smaller fighters", but then Mosley & Cotto may be too big or risky for him? If that's the case, who gives him the most even fight?

IMO, the size issue isn't that big of a disadvantage for either a Pacman to Floyd or Floyd to Shane / Cotto. A smaller guy will have an advantage on one aspect (usually speed) with the bigger guy having the power advantage (most of the time). But I don't believe its that far of a stretch for them to fight.

Henry Armstrong in the 20's fought and defended titles at Featherweight, Welterweight, and back to Featherweight.

[javelin_fangs]

Ring Rankings at Light Heavyweight in 1998 before he unified all 3 belts.

1. Roy Jones Jr.
2. Dariusz Michalczewski
3. Reggie Johnson
4. Graciano Rocchigiani
5. Lou Del Valle
6. Eric Harding
7. Montell Griffin
8. Michael Nunn
9. Antonio Tarver
10. David Telesco


Ring Rankings at Light Heavyweight in 2003 his last year as Champion.

Roy Jones Jr., Champion

1. Antonio Tarver
2. Julio Cesar Gonzalez
3. Dariusz Michalczewski
4. Glen Johnson
5. Eric Harding
6. Clinton Woods
7. Silvio Branco
8. Montell Griffin
9. Richard Hall
10. Mehdi Sahnoune

Yeah... look at all those bums who arent even ranked that Roy fought...Both lists are practically Roy's resume.

Do me a favor dude. Get a list of the ring rankings for 168 and look at how many of them had guys Sven Ottke fought during his title reign. I've heard that Sebastian Lujan, Six Heads Lewis and Antonio Diaz were ranked in the rink top 10 when Antonio Margarito fought them. I mean a ring ranking is what it is.

But Lou Del Valle, Richard Frasier, David Telesco, Richard Hall, Derrick Harmon and Glen Kelley all really fu(king suck. I don't mean just kind of suck. They all really fu(king suck. If you're going to deny that then you can just go on because it's not even worth having a discussion about Roy Jones with you if you can't admit that.

I'm not saying Roy Jones couldn't have beaten the best fighters of his era. He could have beaten some of them. He might have beaten all of them. But we'll never know because he fought all of those ****ty fighters.

I wouldn't have cared after the Reggie Johnson fight if he'd have fought Eric Harding, Julio Gonzalez and Clinton Woods if he'd also mixed in fights with some combination of Michalczewski, Hopkins rematch, Calzaghe and Vassily Jirov. Do you know why? Because those are fights people actually gave two ****s about.

That's the thing with you Roy Jones fans is that you still don't get it. Roy Jones was the biggest attraction in boxing at the time. The sports watching public wanted to see him in big fights and instead he was fighting guys like Richard Hall, David Telesco, Glen Kelley, etc. It's not a coincidence that his PPVs suddenly started doing decent numbers when he fought Ruiz and Tarver after years of doing something like 120,000 buys for PPVs against people like Julio Gonzalez.

[S.G.]

i find going from MW to HW is a bigger deal than 130-147

you're misunderstanding the point mate

i'm comparing their accomplishments at welterweight and heavyweight respectively at face value

i did say it may not be a perfect comparison

[MACAQUEINBLACK]

If Floyd went and took a middleweight belt from, say, Felix Sturm, that would be roughly equivalent to Jones' achievement.

I know what you're saying, though. As it stands, I think Floyd was entitled to call it a day without feeling like he had any more to prove. You can argue both ways for ALL of the guys he supposedly swerved or cherrypicked around through the divisions (Casa, Tszyu, Mosley, Cotto...Marg, fairly or unfairly, is moot since the loaded wraps scandal).


BUT, if he's coming back for Pacquaio (assuming), I want to see him fight Cotto or Mosley as well. Welter was only a stepping stone to De La Hoya for Floyd anyway and then a meeting ground for a big $$$ fight with Hatton before bowing out. If he's returning, it will be as a welter, and I'd like to see him take out one of the best at the weight while he's there. Some would do anything to detract from it whatever ("Floyd waited 'til Cotto was shot after being savagely beat with plaster" ), but, ****, I'd still like to see him do it.

[Spacey1991]

i find going from MW to HW is a bigger deal than 130-147

I disagree regardless it is there 4th weight class mate.

[S.G.]

If Floyd went and took a middleweight belt from, say, Felix Sturm, that would be roughly equivalent to Jones' achievement.

I know what you're saying, though. As it stands, I think Floyd was entitled to call it a day without feeling like he had any more to prove. You can argue both ways for ALL of the guys he supposedly swerved or cherrypicked around (Casa, Tszyu, Mosley, Cotto...Marg, fairly or unfairly, is moot since the loaded wraps scandal).


BUT, if he's coming back for Pacquaio (assuming), I want to see him fight Cotto or Mosley as well. Welter was only a stepping stone to De La Hoya for Floyd anyway and then a meeting ground for a big $$$ fight with Hatton before bowing out. If he's returning, it will be as a welter, and I'd like to see him take out one of the best at the weight while he's there. Some would do anything to detract from it whatever ("Floyd waited 'til Cotto was shot after beaten savagely beat with plaster" ), but, ****, I'd still like to see him do it.

but what if he comes back and fights JMM and Pacman at 140

will people still hound him to face a big 147 pounder? seeing as he will have effectively left the class to fight at one he feels more comfortable at

[THE REED]

Do me a favor dude. Get a list of the ring rankings for 168 and look at how many of them had guys Sven Ottke fought during his title reign. I've heard that Sebastian Lujan, Six Heads Lewis and Antonio Diaz were ranked in the rink top 10 when Antonio Margarito fought them. I mean a ring ranking is what it is.

But Lou Del Valle, Richard Frasier, David Telesco, Richard Hall, Derrick Harmon and Glen Kelley all really fu(king suck. I don't mean just kind of suck. They all really fu(king suck. If you're going to deny that then you can just go on because it's not even worth having a discussion about Roy Jones with you if you can't admit that.

I'm not saying Roy Jones couldn't have beaten the best fighters of his era. He could have beaten some of them. He might have beaten all of them. But we'll never know because he fought all of those ****ty fighters.

I wouldn't have cared after the Reggie Johnson fight if he'd have fought Eric Harding, Julio Gonzalez and Clinton Woods if he'd also mixed in fights with some combination of Michalczewski, Hopkins rematch, Calzaghe and Vassily Jirov. Do you know why? Because those are fights people actually gave two ****s about.

That's the thing with you Roy Jones fans is that you still don't get it. Roy Jones was the biggest attraction in boxing at the time. The sports watching public wanted to see him in big fights and instead he was fighting guys like Richard Hall, David Telesco, Glen Kelley, etc. It's not a coincidence that his PPVs suddenly started doing decent numbers when he fought Ruiz and Tarver after years of doing something like 120,000 buys for PPVs against people like Julio Gonzalez.

I dont make Jones resume out to be the greatest out there... he was more known for going through weight classes than he was for cleaning out one division... When Roy was at SMW Joe ranked at like 9th...

The fact is, Roy fought bernard for the IBF MW title... and then Bernard didnt lose for about 12 years after that loss... Then Roy moved up and fought the #1 SMW in Toney, and the #2 or #3 p4p fighter in Toney... As far as Im concerned, if at that point he moved up and fought Joe Calzaghe ind NOT Toney... then he WOULD BE cherry picking... but he went for the #1 guy at that weight.. and then moved up to LHW and essentially got ALL of the belts...

Ruiz wasnt the best HW by FAR, but it was the weight difference that made it what it was... in retrospect Roy doesnt have the greatest chin, all it would of taken is one solid punch from Ruiz, which he actually did land in round 1... as far as im concerned it was a very good win, especially coming from MW...

And after that he moves back to face the #1 LHW in Tarver...

Im not saying Roy beat every single LEGIT challenger out there, but he has some great wins, and a steady flow of top 10 fighters.. at LHW

as far as Darius and Bernard fights not happening.. I blame BOTH fighters EQUALLY for not making those happen...

[THE REED]

I disagree regardless it is there 4th weight class mate.

yeah there both four weight classes.. only Floyd moved up 20 pounds when he fought at 150.. and roy fought 40 pounds above MW when he fought at HW

[MACAQUEINBLACK]

but what if he comes back and fights JMM and Pacman at 140

will people still hound him to face a big 147 pounder? seeing as he will have effectively left the class to fight at one he feels more comfortable a

Oh, some will, sure. They'll say he's a ***** who ran back down to avoid fighting a real welter. But I'd say fair enough. Always felt Floyd's optimum fighting weight was around 140 anyway. Saying that, I think his abilities would make him highly competetive with all the current top welter guys, and those abilities are why Floyd is held to standards other fighters aren't (often poorly justified by crap about things Floyd said, like being the "greatest" and wanting to clear up welterweight)...that and some people desperately want to see him knocked out.


Don't think he will come back at 140, though, will he? Could be, at this point, after time out, making 140 wouldn't bring out the best in him anyway. I think his body is now grown into that of a 147lber. So, for me, come back and smack Pac around, by all means, but fight a top welter (it only need be one) while you're there. And then ride into the sunset.