Is Boxing Dieing ?

[duss]

MY bad everybody its my fault for even trying to reason with u idiots all you guys do is shout out insignificant facts trying to save the fact the boxing is not what it used to be.

i love boxing and mma but i guess in this forum if you even like mma your wrong and if u point out the fact that only since that past two years boxing is finally trying to put on better fights than your a ufc/ fan boy

im finished because its clear too me on how biased your views and no matter what proof smacks u in the head you still say the same ****[/B]

[duss]

The cards being more exciting is debatable, it depends what you like and which cards you are talking about. I watched GSP/Penn I,II and I thought both those fights were pretty much **** from an entertainment standpoint. I do agree that Pride had some amazing cards, I didn't mind buying the PPV's for those.

Only from an mma hater standpoint, you probably just liked pride better because they allow head stomps and soccer kicks.

[pugilistfan]

well lets see there was two fights before that two that didnt even last that long and um also two on the john vs juarez fight not whole lot considering ufc usually puts out 8 fights everytime and usually most of them is exciting, your not getting it you just named fights recently, i just said they past couple of years they have been getting better but still needs work, i love boxing but i dont like the many different belts there needs too be just one so everyone is fighting each other.

But obviously you like watching fights were its uncompetitive like pavlik vs rubio and cotto vs jennings, ortiz killing everbody in the ufc if a guy was running through oppistion the way ortiz is right now, he would have already faced somebody with a big name that would have posed a bigger threat.

but i guess you like seen undefeated fighters staying undefeated because they never take on the best in there weight classes i guess you like pampered record fighters

I love boxing and support it but just trying to get fans to stop backing up a system that enables fighters to duck one another

I cant believe you brought up boxing having onesided fights.

The UFC has been god awful putting together competitive cards. And the previous card in England had nearly every fight end in the 1st round. Not only were they bad onesided fights but these guys couldnt fight to save their lives. They were terrible fighters wth no punch resistance and no ability to react to punches.

Meanwhile, last week, Diaz-Marquez and John-Juarez put on a fantastic card.

And shows you how much you know. Mike Aranoutis is a very solid fighter and a very good step up in competition to Victor Ortiz.

Sorry, but the UFC is just as corrupt and greedy as any boxing promoter out there. Boxing is not trying to sell Jardine-Rampage PPV´s. Jardine sucks just like most of the guys in the ¨stacked¨LHW division. All that division has are big names who cant grapple and just stand and **** showing their mediocre striking skills. Those guys are hacks. Only Machida, Evans I like.

[pugilistfan]

Only from an mma hater standpoint, you probably just liked pride better because they allow head stomps and soccer kicks.

UFCs last 2 BIG FIGHTS, featured a WWE freak with a college wrestling background and 2-1 MMA record fight a ÜFC¨legend. Than they had a 155lber whos 1-2 in his last 3 fights at WW fight the CHAMPION.

Anybody with a brain knew that was going to be one-sided and I laugh at the people who bought into the UFC hype machine, BOTH TIMES.

I like competitive fights, and I like skilled ones, and I often dont get both from MMA, but rather one or the other.

I´ve never seen an MMA fight with the excitement level of a Diaz-Marquez. Back and forth, skilled action.

[pugilistfan]

uncompetitive?

You mean like

Silva vs Cote - PPV headliner
Silva vs Leites - PPV headliner
Rampage vs Jardine - PPV headliner - yeah it ended up being a sloppy close fight but on paper this being a ppv headliner is a joke.

And Victor Ortiz is only 22 years old, let the guy mature as a fighter before feeding him to the wolves. I read a lot of articles and posts of people who thought Arnoutis would be a good test, no need to Fernando Vargas him.

Rua-Coleman
Liddell-Evans
Leben-Bisping
Liddell-Rua
Dos Santos-Struve

And many, many more. All those were main card bouts.

Ortiz is 22 years old, just turned it too, and clearly the guy doesnt watch alot of boxing because Arnaoutis has been featured on some FNF cards and is a very good test for Ortiz. MA is a top 15-20 junior welter. I thought Ortiz would win, but I thought itd be a very competitive fight.

[pugilistfan]

bro come on silva makes almost everyone look uncompetitive and the middleweight is one of there weaker divisions but its getting better

im pretty sure silva vs leites hasnt happend yet

doesnt matter if on paper if its a joke it wasnt a bad fight, your not getting it the whole fight card of one mma event is usually more exciting than most boxing events .

so by giving him bigger opposition and harder fights isnt helping a fighter mature, but i guess you just want too see his record get bigger. i get it, its really not about letting a fighter mature, its about building up the record so that when he fights a bigger name he pulls in more money, i guess it makes sense, but yea putting him in harder fights wont make him more mature, sure.

Wasnt a bad fight? Cote-Silva was awful, one-sided and Cote looked like nothing more than an everlast punching bag. In fact, an everlast bag would have done better because at least their durable.

Cote hasnt recorded a professional boxing win, and hes fought nothing but cans. And yet this hack gets a title shot.

Leites has not earned a shot. And hes not even close.

You dont understand boxing at all. Promoters arent ******. They just dont pick guys off the street. They give these guys different looks. Top Rank gave Pavlik southpaws, punchers, boxers, brawlers, inside fighters, body punchers, speedsters. As a result he wasnt out of his element and overwhelmed against a guy like Miranda or Taylor.

In boxing you need time to progress, just like any other real sport. Its unlike MMA where you just pluck WWE fighters with amatuer wrestling backgrounds and give them unearned title shots.

[optkliluzn]

People will say well what about Cotto/Dawson/Williams/Haye ETC ?

What about prospects like Ortiz/Jacobs/Gamboa/Khan ETC ?

Well truth is.....your getting old because Im excited about the prospects, im excited about pacman and mosley, and dawson, and cotto

Truth is boxing isnt DYING...lol.....its just not that interesting to you anymore, kuz I liked the triple header it reminded me of the Tyson days....fights not going the distance.

Maybe you should try watching dancing with the stars, floyd did.

Case in point, Saturday nights HBO triple-header. After a night of medicore at best action resulting in the entire card finishing in less than 20-minutes, Max "bug-eye" Kellerman took the mic and delivered a cancer-ridden speech in his own "unique" style. If I wasnt cringing so much at Kellerman's hideous presentation skills I would have been worried.

Kellerman ****** on basically trying to defend the nights action and the state of boxing itself, adding that the fighters in question were prospects and had a lot to learn. I noticed sinister undertones in what Kellerman was saying, and these feelings were nothing new. In his own weird way, he was basically confirming what a lot of us have been feeling for quite some time. Boxing is ill.


The UFC

What really did it for me was, as I watching watching the HBO and Azteca cards on tiny low-resolution illegal streams which kept on being locked down by the HBO bizzies, I was happily watching the UFC 96 Rampage vs Jardine card for FREE on Setanta using my 32" Samsung tv. Now, I've only really started watching UFC since the turn of the year. For me, the quality of the stand-up fighting makes it nearly unbearable to watch for the most part and watching 2 grown men in speedos roll around the floor grunting isnt my idea of a good scrap. However, last nights card was excellent. There are no mismatches in UFC, there isnt a million different weight classes, there's only a single belt in each divison and every UFC card is stacked and I mean STACKED. Take Decembers UFC92 Triple-header which had Griffin vs Evans, Nog vs Mir and Rampage vs Silva - thats about 6months worth of boxing main-events in one night aswell as an undercard that would put most HBO BAD main events to shame. The UFC is currently doing everything that boxing should be.



Where are boxing's superstars ?


I asked my non-sport girlfriend this morning if she knew who Oscar de la Hoya was. All I got was a blank stare back. Floyd Mayweather ?...nothing. Ok I thought, as we live in the UK I might have better luck....Joe Calzaghe ? Nope. She knew that Ricky Hatton was a boxer, but didnt know what he looked like. Ok I said, who do you know ?

She then proceeded to name Frank Bruno, Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis, Muhammed Ali and Chris Eubank. "Oh and the grill man" she said.

Manny Pacquiao... ? Another stare.



To put it bluntly, boxing is falling away as a mainstream support. The casual non-sports fan no longer has any idea about who's who in boxing. The casual sports fan might be able to name you the top guys, and might watch a fight or 2 a year. Casual boxing fans will mostly likely be able to tell you the jist about the latest news.

And then you have hardcore boxing fans like me that stay away untill 5am so I can stay up and watch shocking HBO no-namer cards like last nights. How many people can you say would do that ?



The Beginning of the End


To add to the woes, there doesnt look like theres anyone who's going to change that either. Now I know Im going to get a lot of stick for saying that but its only what I feel.

People will say well what about Cotto/Dawson/Williams/Haye ETC ?

What about prospects like Ortiz/Jacobs/Gamboa/Khan ETC ?


Quite frankly, im not excited about anyone. It says a lot that the only elite fighters (Pacquiao, Marquez, Hopkins) are 30 years old and over, the recently retired Mayweather and Calzaghe both over 30, and Shane Mosley who is now many people's P4P #5 aint no spring chicken either.

Who is going to replace this generation ?

Boxing is being punished by the success of other sports. In other sports you can earn more money whilst not getting bashed in the head, sounds like a pretty good deal to me. The net of younger fighters comming through is dwindling and in doing so reduces our chances of getting the next "big thing".


Promoters


My most recent pet-peev is the disgrace of a "PPV" set up by Top Rank, the Cotto-Pavlik double header. At a cost of $54.99 in this financial climate, you would have expected the most stacked card of the year. Instead we got what has become all too familier lately. A dismal undercard followed by two JOKE mismatch main events. Im glad I got it for free on Setanta. Now a card that had say for arguements sake....Mosley vs Cotto as the headline event. Stick Williams vs Winky in as the main support, then have say last nights Kirkland vs Julio on the card aswell as Ortiz vs A human being. I'd gladly play PPV prices for a card such as this instead we get club-level fights or 1-sided beatdowns.

Previously to that, the Pacquiao - De la Hoya farce was nearly as annoying. I think I actually laughed out loud when it was announced as "The Dream Match" and looked on in dismay as Oscar put on what was quite possibly the worst performance of any top fighter since I've been watching boxing. If this was the biggest fight that boxing could produce...then **** me boxings already dead. My non-boxing fan buddies werent impressed, in fact I think its turned them away.

Why would anyone want to watch fights like that again ? The biggest boxing spectacle of the year probably done MORE DAMAGE to the sports image than good. Amazing !


Marquez vs Diaz


Fight of the year no question. It had everything and I was nearly in tears after it. It reminded me why boxing was my favourite sport and why I loved the sport so much.

The most hardened non-boxing fan could watch this and only be enthralled.

Had this fight been given the attention, funding, resources and marketing that Oscar/Hatton/Mayweather "fights" are given then boxing wouldnt be in such a sorry state.

Whilst this fight was a major win for boxing fans, it was only exactly that. A win for boxing fans. Not a win for boxing. This fight wouldnt have generated any new boxing fans as it was only boxing fans who watched it in the first place and more worryingly only boxing fans who knew about it in the first place.


In Conclusion


Boxing's illness can much be compared to the situation in Africa where diseases cured over 20 years ago like TB are running rampant because pharmaceutical companies CAN BUT WONT send vaccines over because of cost.

The TV companies, promoters and the fighters themselves can all pitch in and help save boxing. At the end of the day its all down to money and no one wants to lose out.

Why would a fighter want to take less money to fight a harder oppoent ?

Why would a promoter want his fighter to take less money to fight a more competative opponent knowing he could lose it all ?

Why would HBO or Showtime want to take less money putting on a more attractive fight card ?

Why would HBO or Showtime want to spend more money into advertising and marketing their fighters knowing that in the short-term its not going to pay off ?



The saviour of boxing might indeed come, but its going to take a long-term solution rather than be a straight quick fix. If everyone complied together than we could get a bigger audience watching boxing and in turn increase the number of people involved in boxing.


Sadly, I dont think this will happen. Boxing will always have a place in my heart though.

[pugilistfan]

HAHAHA...It's funny aint it? These UFC/MMA fanboys keep saying PPV'S ARE KILLING Boxing yet UFC puts on 1 every month! UFC could find 8 bums from the street say they world class this and that and have Joe Rogan scream and yell how stacked this card is and it's the best UFC yet and some morons will believe it. UFC is the perfect example of how far are society has fallen!

Honestly, you´re actually dead on.

Its the UFC hype machine. Rogan, Goldberg are UFC mouthpieces who spew their propaganda.

This guy is ¨world class in jiu jitsu¨, he has ¨lethal hands¨ blah blah blah. When in reality some of these guys have gotten their black belts because of who they know, not what they know and the ¨pro boxers¨ with lethal hands posted mediocre records fighting within state against cans.

[Check]

u just answered the whole thing boxing only started too do better after mma started booming, because it actually has competition.

and just because it has all these numbers that u spout out its actually mma that is pulling in the bigger ppv numbers.

I just went to UFC 94 with GSP vs BJ penn from beginning to end the whole crowd was going crazy even during the first fight of the night which wasnt even broadcasted and the stands were packed, unlike boxing where it doesnt get full until the main event

And about dela hoya people only show up because he is a big name but he's gone and im pretty sure no one is gonna really care if he fights again.

just accept the fact that only until recently Boxing started to put on somewhat better fights because mma was a big competition for them. I do wann see more great boxing action but this bull**** of paying 50 bucks for maybe 1 good fight is ridiculous and even hbo, showtime, and other networks dont always have good fights so why dish out all the extra money for a good fight every once in a while.

I'll give boxing promoters a little bit of props seeing as there trying to put better fights together within the past two years but more needs to be done, maybe a stacked card every once in a while, when have u ever seen a stacked boxing card um um um i dunno can u guys name any.

I have never denied and have actually said MMA was one of the best things to happen to boxing(maybe I was unclear). Its not a bad thing its a good thing that boxing is finally going back to its roots(fan friendly fights, less ducking, more about boxing vs more about business). As for stacking the cards I doubt that happens unless if boxing actually does start to die. If theres a demand for it(which there is still a huge demand)then it wont happen. I think you are really underestimating boxings selling value. Just last month there was events held where the Montreal Candians play(Bute V Pascal) and where the Nets play(Adamek V Banks), they were both just regular small cards in big arenas. UFC is having events at big areans(Columbus last week)but its for their PPV. Boxing is doing pretty well, just because MMA is doing good in PPV does not mean it is controlling the whole landscape of these two sports.

[Check]

If you just look at this weekend you have huge fights in Germany, United Kingdom, Mexico, and Canada. I also counted a total of 21 different countries partaking in the sport of boxing. From United States to Tansmia there is boxing to be shown. Think of all the people from all those countries that will see live boxing. Boxing isn't close to dying and is thriving in more countries than it ever has. UFC may be the new NFL in America and may have interest in some other countries but boxing still has a strong following in America but is also very global, kinda like soccer. If you are waiting for boxing to die well you will be long gone before you see it happen.